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Comments
again, possibly, but for how long??
A reasoned economic and political argument:
I believe that "areas" (call them countries or counties or states) should be as politically and economically self sufficient as humanly and environmentally possible. I believe that in the pursuit of globalism (unfettered international capital) and perpetual growth, at any cost, we have lost sight of what is important for current, and certainly future generations. The EU (imo) fosters and promotes what has gone wrong with the World. It stands shoulder to shoulder with "corporations" and it`s agenda seeks to support and promote big business and big government. The people of Europe are often treated as an afterthought. If you are making policy decisions Europe wide, inevitably you are going to hack some people off. The bigger the EU gets, by common logic, the more people you will end up hacking off. Just because the World is going the way of huge trading blocs, and if you`re not in one you are somehow left out or disadvantaged, doesn`t make this right. Trade blocs and trade deals are not done for the benefit of you or I, they are done for the benefit of global corporate interests. The EU and it`s army of bureaucrats exist to promote and perpetuate the existing order. I don`t like the existing order. I don`t think that the existing order, the status quo, is particularly successful. If we have the opportunity to leave and forge our own path I think we should. I don`t want everything I use, consume and own to have travelled half way round the World and back again, that can`t be good, can it? By leaving I am hoping that we will be forced, possibly by necessity, to start actually making things again, a novel idea I know. Within the EU we have no incentive to make a change, in fact any radical changes we may want to make may fall foul of EU law. I am not blaming the EU for all the Worlds problems, and they are not at fault for most of the things that are wrong with this country, most are probably self inflicted. But as a country we have pursued certain goals and agendas that have run parallel with the EU. We have had common goals and objectives. I don`t like what the EU has become or what it strives to be. The more power the EU concentrates within its own hands, the more hamstrung and dependent member states become. That is not a good thing either politically or economically. More autonomy, less autocracy.
This whole fiasco is giving shambles a bad name.
Check out @Independent’s Tweet:
Blue passportses ;lol
This is the link to the Independent's twitter post:
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1072054691826204673and the link to the video on their website:
it was more a tongue in cheek comment. Hard to tell that video from a norm press release of May
eu just take take take prop up Greece Portugal and so on, then get told uk will have the in 5 years, the red tape to get out
Also interest rates set by the country I live in
Also, if one of the reasons you voted to leave was because of who sets interests rates, you were obviously misinformed, although as Mooj said, it only needed a quick Google to put that right. I wonder what other misinformation you (and those other 2000 to 3000) believed.
The bail out for Greece as far as I know did not include mandatory contributions from ourselves as we have an opt out.
We cannot be forced to accept the Euro against our wishes and do set our own interest rates.
We are also opted out of Schengen zone so could not be forced to take refugees against our will.
And we also hold a veto so could prevent the dreaded by some Euro army.
We most likely had the most gold plated membership their was.
The EU is far from perfect and will need reform to survive and it could collapse anyhow in ten years time, but the position we were in I cannot see how you can gain by deliberately giving yourself worse trading relations than you currently have. Trade is global now and trade decides your economy full stop, so we will be poorer in my view as the power house of any nation is the economy. It's also of note that we rely upon financial services and if that starts to get picked off we have no substantial manufacturing base to rely on, we could become the poor man of Europe as we have massive debt to service and rely upon tax receipts to do so. The other issue is the moment our rate of borrowing goes up we could be pretty much finished in even attempting to service our debt, we lost our triple AAA the day after Brexit I believe, Junk is not too far away in worst case scenarios.
The big picture is what I try to look at, seven years ago, the UK was the worlds ninth largest economy, at the time of the vote, we were fifth - therefore, despite the admitted inefficiency and bureaucracy of the E.U. we were actually doing rather well.
I think that immigration fear mongering played a really big part in the leave hyperbole, there is a commitment to being a member but at the end of the day, if the global situation reached a point where excessive immigration presented a clear danger to the security of the UK, we have the unique ability to close our borders literally overnight.
After all we do have a pretty good wall, and Mexico is not under threat to pay for it.
Now, put an arch-Brexiteer like Farage in front of a long line of people with the implication that they're all undesirable/illegal immigrants, or plaster lies on a BIG RED BUS - that's bound to get a reaction.
Then for good measure, add a few "EU court won't let us deport terrorists" headlines in the Brexiteer press, ignoring that the ECHR (European Court of Human Rights) is not a part of the EU, and you've really got something to boil the blood.
Boris was on the Andrew Marr show on Sunday with a new, tidy haircut so obviously he fancies his chances.
I`m sure if The Remainers had used words like "crashing out", "emergency budget", "disaster for The UK", "flights grounded", "food shortages", "drugs in short supply", "disaster for NHS" and used the full weight of the establishment, including the BofE and one or two A list celebs, and say someone like Barack Obama, to get their message across, things may well have turned out different.
Still, when we have The Peoples Vote (as opposed to The Plebs Vote, I guess) then perhaps the Remainers can "sexy" it up a bit, and we won`t be so easily bamboozled by Boris and his bus.
More seriously, as others have stated, there is no single 'Brexit' manifesto. People clearly opted for Brexit for a wide range of reasons.
The fact that you made a clear, informed choice based on long-standing principles does not necessarily imply that others did the same.
I would be amazed if many of those who voted to leave will actually see the results they imagined/expected once Brexit is complete.
I get that opinions will differ as to whether the trade deals we can negotiate on our own will be better/worse than a trade deal negotiated as part of a larger group, or whether immigrants are a good/bad thing.
But for crying out loud - why vote to Leave in order to get the power to do something you can do something that you already have the power to do. ;doh
It's true what you say but those "........" you mention were nowhere to be seen in the media that appealed most to Brexiteers, or they were simply branded "Project Fear".
And if you indeed voted to leave having ignored the "........." etc. then you must believe all the
pie in the skyhave your cake and eat it promises of the sunlit uplands (although your posts don't seem to indicate that you're gullible enough to fall for that).More seriously, as others have stated, there is no single 'Brexit' manifesto. People clearly opted for Brexit for a wide range of reasons.
The fact that you made a clear, informed choice based on long-standing principles does not necessarily imply that others did the same.
I posted the following on this thread a while back
I was reading an article in the Grauniad, and the writer said that his wife's uncle had voted Leave because his son was training to be a doctor and he didn't like the health minister, Jeremy Hunt, who was a Remainer. So much for an in-depth analysis…
Brexit has created a national division that was never there in the first place. The referendum was just a sop to the ERG in the Tory party. I don't recall there being a national clamour for it to take place.
Whether that threat was real or not is debatable but Cameron won a majority so it could be argued it was a clever move. Had he not done it we might be grumbling about our Prime Minister's inability to eat a bacon sandwich, that bloody great Ed stone would be in No. 10's back garden and no one would know who Jeremy Corbyn was.