Declan Rice - Signs 5 1/2 year deal (or does he...)

OldCastleSwift

This is a problem of the club's own making. The board seemed to have no issue with paying Oxford, Quina and Haksabanovic more than Rice was initially offered. Even the new offer is considerably less than what stop-gap Sanchez is on, and surely Rice should be considered a more valuable contributer than him?

What makes me think that the board may be looking to cash-in is their decision to go public with the contract discussions. It feels a bit like they're making sure everyone knows that their offers are being rejected and the lack of movement is down to the player/agent. Perhaps paving the way to sell the player and saying 'well we made a very good offer but it was clear he didn't want to sign so we had no option but to sell'.

Fortuneseeker

OCS,

Surely that is an "old" West Ham way of dealing with contract disputes. We are far too professional to act in a blinkered way and let a very promising player leave, aren't we? ;whistle

claretandbluesky

I am not sure that this is the aim as I think it's a simple case of a player making very quick progress and taking the usual model of dealing with up and coming academy players a little by surprise, as Oxford did after Slav gave him his debut against Arsenal a couple of seasons back. So normally you could make the 3k to 10k as he continues to show promise but still needs time. Rice has shown he can hold his own in the first team squad as well as many seasoned professionals. So he is naturally saying pay me what I am worth and the club are saying but we usually want to go to 10k from 3k for academy players showing potential. Both will know there should be compromise but if we take reports as true the club are just playing a little hardball with their clauses to try and insulate from him being a flash in the pan.

I think however the weight of evidence is in Rice's favour and so they will eventually pay him a very respectable contract on par with his performances for the team. They will be aware that if his upward progression continues the bigger clubs may come calling but I would imagine they would not look to cash him in early for 30m, but rather wait until they have little choice (if that time comes) at a much bigger sum.

MrsGrey

OldCastleSwift said:

This is a problem of the club's own making. The board seemed to have no issue with paying Oxford, Quina and Haksabanovic more than Rice was initially offered. Even the new offer is considerably less than what stop-gap Sanchez is on, and surely Rice should be considered a more valuable contributer than him?

What makes me think that the board may be looking to cash-in is their decision to go public with the contract discussions. It feels a bit like they're making sure everyone knows that their offers are being rejected and the lack of movement is down to the player/agent. Perhaps paving the way to sell the player and saying 'well we made a very good offer but it was clear he didn't want to sign so we had no option but to sell'.

A lot of this is speculation and rumour - how do we know what other players are on? How do we know the board has gone public - a lot of the leaks (and we don't know how true they are) seem to be coming from Rice's agent? And he clearly has an agenda and a motive to present the situation in a way which makes his client look good and the board look mean. Even if the board are leaking stuff, they are doing nothing that Rice's agent isn't doing - I'm taking BOTH sides with a pinch of salt.

As for Sanchez, it's impossible and utterly meaningless to compare salaries. We didn't sit down at the start of the season with all players on a clean sheet in terms of contracts and make them all consistent with each other. All negotiations start with where we are at that point.

A player bought in gets the deal they negotiate, and factors that affect that include how much time is left, how desperate or otherwise both sides are to get the deal done before the deadline and so on, what the manager's (or now, in our case, the DOF's) priorities and red lines are. Sanchez has achieved FAR more than Rice. There's no comparison. Rice is all potential.

Both sides are, one imagines, determined not to be held to ransom.

ASLEFshrugged

Reece Oxford is on £20k a week, he signed a four-and-half year contract on his 18th birthday (16 Dec 2016).

According to a Claret and Hugh article (Feb this year) Haksabanovic is on £5k pw and Quina on £8k pw so hardly on huge salaries.

However Fernandes is on £30k, he was 20 when we signed him in August 2016 before he got his first full cap for Switzerland.

Pearces_Left_Foot

So based on the above £40k a week is probably a pretty good offer then

Lukerz

It’s all agent driven. Most 19 year olds are thankful for their chance to be a regular at a PL club & continue to focus on their development. Agents, however, want their client to be on as lucrative a contract as possible ASAP & probably give themselves a slice of the pie.

I bet Dec is more than happy at the club but his agent is negotiating on husband behalf & his agent is saying ‘no deal’. At the end of the day that is what Rice hired them to do. Look after his interests. But to be demanding over £30,000 a week for a 19 year old is ridiculous. He had loads of progress to make. Let’s not pretend he is the next Pirlo based on a few good games.

If he ends up moving elsewhere so be it.

ASLEFshrugged

They're not offering him £40k, its £21k plus appearance fees, bonuses, etc.

Comparing Rice's achievements with Sanchez etc. is irrelevant, he should get paid a salary that reflects his contribution on the pitch. He might only be 19 (20 in January) but he plays like someone with years of experience.

He's made 39 appearances, 15 more and he equals Slaven Bilic's total for us.

Hamstew

He was one of best players last season and probably in the top 3 this season. Not to mention motm for his Ireland performances. He's not just had a few good games. I feel like he is being punished because of a few mistakes they made with other youngsters at the club. I've heard he wants a basic of £30 to £40k (I obviously don't know this for sure) wich imo is fair enough when looking at his contribution against most of our other players past and present.

MrsGrey

ASLEFshrugged said:

Comparing Rice's achievements with Sanchez etc. is irrelevant, he should get paid a salary that reflects his contribution on the pitch. .

In theory yes but it can't work like that when the salary is in a contract that might be.. what 4 or 5 years long? So you are committing to a salary for what he MIGHT do (or not do) on the pitch for that period. He's a young player starting out, with a lot of developing to do and (not surprisingly) hasn't shown he can be consistent over a long period. Unlike an established player, where you can be (barring injury) surer that committing X amount over 5 years is going to be worth it.

I think offering him a commensurate(ish) salary but one that's predicated on certain achievements (% appearances, starts, etc) is the way to go. Got to be prudent.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

I disagree ASLEF

Think he is getting a very good deal for his age, and you think his age doesn't matter then only have to look at the aforementioned players mentioned in this thread as examples of youth players getting paid less than experienced ones

He's 19 and has done very very well, but even still there is no guarantee things won't go pear shaped as youth development is tricky (Dier & Ali arguably had their best season the first year they joined)

He is a first teamer yes, but still a relative new one. And if he is a first teamer he is making £40k a week. If he thinks £40k a week is bad then I think we are gonna have a problem with him at some point anyway down the line. Jeez if he's on £21k a week he shouldn't exactly be moaning.

Pearces_Left_Foot

If he plays every week then he will be gettting 40k a week . It just shows how ridiculous money is in football nowadays , he would be earning in a week what most people earn in a year at 19 . He would then be set for life on one contract it depends what kind of person he is , if he is the type will still push himself or the type that thinks they made it . I have seen both types .

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Pearces_Left_Foot said:

he would be earning in a week what most people earn in a year at 19

How many 19 year olds do you know that make £40k a year!!! I was at uni at 19 seeing whether my overdraft could cover a bag of pasta and cheese

IronHerb

His age is irrelevant. He is being selected on ability but not being paid the equivalent salary.

MrsGrey

Age per se isn't (imo) relevant - but his inexperience is. One is a product of the other (at this point).

ASLEFshrugged

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years said:

How many 19 year olds do you know that make £40k a year!!! I was at uni at 19 seeing whether my overdraft could cover a bag of pasta and cheese

How many 30, 40 or 50 year olds make £40k a week?

I'm 57, I make around £1k a week.

MrsGrey

Re comparisons with other young players... isn't Quina at Watford now? (We sold him in the summer... for an undisclosed (officially) but rumoured £1m.) Where he's not getting games.

Lukerz

So he is being offered an incentive based deal which basically rewards him for being in the starting 11? What is wrong with that? Encourages him to keep on it & not let his form drop. He earns £40,000 a week when he starts, £26,000 if he is on the bench & £21,000 if he is not selected. Sorry his agent is after a deal that secures his client mega money when he has still not proven himself in the PL. He needs to retain motivation to keep progressing. He is 19. He is a CB/DM. We’re not talking about a star forward here.

He played in a defence last season which saw the ball flying past him & into the back of the net several times. He has had 3 good games as a DM this season. That is it.

Cuz1

Are other players payed on wether they play or not, I would very much doubt it and imo it’s unfair to think he should accept it because he’s only played 39 games or so, why can’t we give him a contract if x amount and stick to that and if not let him sign for someone who will pay what he’s worth

Pearces_Left_Foot

Whu champ I meant that at 19 he would earning in a week what most people would could consider an above average yearly salary when they had been working for years. I have been working for 30 years and only just earn above 40k. I get paid that for my experience in my role which affects my ability to do if effectively.

Hamstew

Well what ever people believe to be the right thing to do Imo he'll either end up getting his 30k+ a year basic contract soon or in January/next summer end up somewhere like Chelsea on alot more than that. Just my opinion ;ok

alderz

Cuz1 said:

Are other players payed on wether they play or not

Isn’t that the point though? We don’t know how other contracts work. This might be standard practice

Cuz1

Well Andy Carroll would be on statutory sick pay if he was

claretandbluesky

I think the 'if you are selected' clause is more significant with regard final earnings than we are imagining it when compared to other contracts.

In theory it sounds perfectly reasonable as a guard against Declan not sustaining his progression, but in reality it doesn't likely just mean he earns less when not deemed in form enough to warrant a first team place, but also when injured and even off season. I imagine all other players get their full salary off season and during international breaks etc. I don't think an agent would be doing his job too well if he advised his to agree such a clause but ultimately I imagine all offers are put to Declan himself and he has the final say.

It would appear there is a compromise just waiting to be made if both parties wish to remain together.

buffybegood

Pretty sure most contracts include bonuses for playing.

Cuz1

I believe they probably are but on top of a salary as an incentive like a attendance bonus not as a top up surely

Pearces_Left_Foot

I hope he makes his mind up soon, if Pellegrini thinks he is not going to be around long term he might decide to sign a replacement sooner rather than later and bump him down to the bench again.

claretandbluesky

That conversation should focus the clubs mind. It's clear we need a DM and have done for a while. Were we to go into the Market we would likely have to pay a considerable sum if not wishing to take a chance, yet here we have one who has proven he is up to the job at present and has the potential to maybe even be a big player at the highest level. If Pelle can satisfy himself that Rice is his DM then his wage demands if around the 40k level(?) shouldn't be seen as too excessive. An established DM would likely cost a bit more than that and likely be a little older at least, so the Rice deal should look very attractive.

OldCastleSwift

https://bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45929725

Leicester have managed to tie their recently internationally-recognised, Premier League regular Academy graduate to a long-term contract.

Meanwhile at West Ham...

Hamstew

He was on £20k a week already apparently