Declan Rice - Signs 5 1/2 year deal (or does he...)

PrestonHammer

Roy Keane, when he moved from Nottingham Forest to Man Utd.

Bazshuayi

He's English and I want our West Ham player to play for England. its prestigious for us and bumps up any potential TF fee. I dont care about what hes done before, I want him to boot out Eric Dier and compete with Henderson for the DM spot. As for Ireland, and especially Roy Keane, I could care less (hard Paddington stare accompanies my words)

Hamstew

It's a strange one and I can't get my head around until it. Hopefully he follows his heart and doesn't get swayed by agents and plays for the country he's most passionate about. I hope it's England though. I to am English with Irish Grandparents but I never really think myself as Irish or get that bothered when they play.

grey_til_I_dye

Rocky

Back at you with the Paddington stare.

Who are you (or anyone) to say if he is English or Irish? I'd rather imagine that is down to him.

BubblesNeverDies

I don't know which he has, but if he has an Irish passport then it would be reasonable to assume he considers himself Irish - probably.

Lukerz

The fact he has represented them without thought at only 19 to me says he considers himself Irish.

But his representatives may consider him English & in his best interests to consider himself English too.

Hamstew

He might feel both. But Ireland asked and England didn't.

OldCastleSwift

Ham ;ok

He was first involved with ROI at Under-16 level, so he was more under the influence of his family, I'd imagine. Perhaps because they associate more with being Irish he felt it was the right thing to do at the time.

Now he's older and is an adult in his own right, maybe he feels more English than Irish and wants to represent them.

I am slightly concerned that this is agent driven, but only Rice knows the truth and we may never find that out.

grey_til_I_dye

If I were to guess, I would imagine it was his dad's influence that swayed him towards Ireland.

If, as he has matured, he now feels more drawn to his English roots on his mother's side, I have no issue with that.

Cuz1

I’ve got no issue if he swaps because he feels bullied or doesn’t enjoy the work environment either to be honest

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

Rice probably did want to play for ROI but he’s not daft, he also knew that if he did the business in the green shirt the three lions may come knocking.

I hate this rule I really do, once you pull on that jersey for the senior squad no matter what type of fixture your mind is made up and the case is closed imo

Regarding Roy Keane - at what point does he leave this so called “hard man” image where it belonged, back on the pitch at Old Trafford??

IronHerb

But that's all he's got.

Bazshuayi

grey_til_I_dye said:

Rocky

Back at you with the Paddington stare.

Who are you (or anyone) to say if he is English or Irish? I'd rather imagine that is down to him.

Born and raised in London, hes English (the Paddington stare, which I should've been clearer on, was for Roy Keane lol) and ours! Just my opinion though...

grey_til_I_dye

I was born and raised in London (to two Irish parents), and I'm Irish, and that's not an opinion!

Can't see how birthplace alone has anything to do with national identity.

All my family's history is the history of Ireland, not England.

BubblesNeverDies

Grey, that's a whole can of worms there - nature over nurture etc. I'm going nowhere near that! ;biggrin
But can I ask, are you fortunate enough (in this current political climate) to have an Irish passport?

ASLEFshrugged

It isn't just Rice, Harry Arter also declined a call up in September, he's got 13 caps and has played in competitive matches.

grey_til_I_dye

Bubbles

It's on it's way.

I never bothered before, as I am not especially nationalistic, and I'm an Irish citizen anyway.

ASLEF

Arter was the one Keane apparently dug out, so no surprise there.

ASLEFshrugged

Keane also had a pop at Jonathan Walters who played against Wales in September but left afterwards and missed the Poland game. Problems with his knee apparently.

grey_til_I_dye

Bubbles

In my case it isn't really nature v nurture; I got both - I was brought up in an Irish household by Irish parents.

I have no issue if people born and raised in a country choose to identify with that nationality; in the end, where there is a choice, it can only be down to how the individual feels.

What I would argue against is someone saying, categorically, 'anyone born in Country X is that nationality', whether they like it or not.

BubblesNeverDies

Grey what about your environment, friends, activities etc. outside of your family, don't they also have an influence?

alderz

grey

I think the Roy Keane theory came from Jason McAteer. In his interview he was saying Keane is aggressive and disruptive and had a pop at Walters and Arter for being injured and missing training, claiming they were lying. According to McAteer this happened in front of the squad and he asserted that that had led Rice to not want to be a part of the set up.

(Ignore me if you already know all that ;thumbsup )

Tomw85

It is a tricky one this. I have just married an Irish woman and if we have children I think that I would be equally proud to see them represent either country, but then I am rather fond of the Irish and Ireland so maybe that is why it wouldn't matter to me.

In this instance, I think it is more of a financial issue being pushed by his new agent, but I have no evidence to back up my view.

grey_til_I_dye

Bubbles

I don't think they had an influence on my perception of my nationality, no, and I'm not sure how they could.

BubblesNeverDies

Grey, belatedly ;biggrin ;ok

grey_til_I_dye

Tbh, growing up, I'd struggle to think of many people I knew, and certainly friends, who had two English parents.

ASLEFshrugged

My dad was born in Scotland but moved to London when he was three months old. I was born in Romford so I'm English not Scottish. I once had a long discussion with a man in New York who insisted he was Scottish because his great-grandfather had moved from Scotland to the USA in the 1900s and therefore I must be Scottish too.

He was wearing a kilt.

I wasn't.

Nationality is an complete accident so I don't really get why its important.

secrethammersfan

I read about an old man who lived in some village in the mountains of Croatia. Born in the 1910’s, he had never left his village, and had had eight nationalities in his lifetime

grey_til_I_dye

ASLEF

Well, birth is a complete accident too, from the view of the one being born.

If your defintion of 'nationality' is simply 'the country you were born in' then it's not the same as my definition, so we would be talking at cross-purposes.

That said, I am not particularly nationalistic either.

MrsGrey

I was born in England to English parents and grandparents. I don't really identify as

secrethammersfan said:

I read about an old man who lived in some village in the mountains of Croatia. Born in the 1910’s, he had never left his village, and had had eight nationalities in his lifetime

Shows that lines on a map mean nothing. And why nationalism is, ultimately, bunk (for me).

SuzanneClaret

I was born in Essex, by accident as my mum was born in Matlock and my Dad Leeds, but I feel Essex to my very core.

Not sure how English I feel though ;hmm