Liverpool v West Ham 13:30 12th August 2018 Match Thread

IronHerb

No, he'll have the courage to drop Nobes.

PrestonHammer

I wouldn't be so sure Ironherb. If he thought Nobes was the problem he would have dropped him instead of Rice. Imo.

ianbishoplegend

I thought he would have put Zabaletta in instead of Rice.

OldCastleSwift

It was a strange performance really. Especially when you read Noble's comments in the week. 'We need to take the game to them, otherwise we'll lose'.

We were very much 4-5-1 and carried very little threat. Antonio looked miles out of his depth and Anderson did more work in his own half than he did in theirs. Midfield looked slow and the whole team looked panicked every time we had the ball. I expected us to lose, but I thought we'd at least cause them some problems.

That said, my biggest frustration is with whoever did the fixture list. Liverpool away, along with City, was the hardest start we could have got. The defeat immediately puts pressure on our first home game and already we're on the back foot. Bournemouth have been something of a bogey team of late and I'm actually quite nervous about it; it has Newcastle last season written all over it.

secrethammersfan

My twopence worth (all opinions my own, and probably all wrong, so don't argue):
Fabiański looked good, and lent a lot of confidence to the defence.
Ogbonna will be good when he starts playing.
For me, Noble looked like he didn't belong in that team.
I like watching Anderson when he has the ball.
Watching West Ham in September will be a lot more fun than watching them in August!
Sadio Mane is incomparable, but his hairstyle upsets me.

baracks_a_hammer

Noble gave an interview for the standard where he was going on about how pre-season was so much better than than previously as we were tested more against top quality opposition. Mainz and Augsburg?? ;hmm

Also he went on about the little things making a difference like booking hotels with Wi-fi so new foreign players could FaceTime their loved ones - are there seriously still hotels out there that DON’T have Wi-fi? What on Earth is he going about? Even if there isn’t Wi-fi, if you are on £50k a week, just set your phone to use mobile data surely??!!

Pearces_Left_Foot

Not sure a lot of footballers know about data too busy taking selfies and posting on Instagram

Lukerz

OCS - I thought one of the big positives was our passing. Other than Antonio, I thought everybody passed the ball relatively well when you consider the amount of pressure we were under in that game. We never had much chance to comfortably sit on the ball and knock it about yet a lot of the players pass %’s were in the 90’s.

The problem is when you are trying to adjust to a new system, tactics, playing style, management, with 5 new players, Anfield is not the place where you are going to be able to do that comfortably. I feel the team Pelle picked was not actually what he wanted to go with. I don’t see 4-5-1 being his usual formation and I don’t see that midfield 3 or Antonio being regular starters under him in this side.

Hopefully we bounce back next week and we can look back at this one as just too big a test for the first game.

Yeoldhammer

Lukerz said:

OCS - I thought one of the big positives was our passing. Other than Antonio, I thought everybody passed the ball relatively well when you consider the amount of pressure we were under in that game. We never had much chance to comfortably sit on the ball and knock it about yet a lot of the players pass %’s were in the 90’s.

The problem is when you are trying to adjust to a new system, tactics, playing style, management, with 5 new players, Anfield is not the place where you are going to be able to do that comfortably. I feel the team Pelle picked was not actually what he wanted to go with. I don’t see 4-5-1 being his usual formation and I don’t see that midfield 3 or Antonio being regular starters under him in this side.

Hopefully we bounce back next week and we can look back at this one as just too big a test for the first game.

But we hardly had the ball to make a pass with and when we did, the supposed "strengths" of Noble and Wilshire to find a pass and unlock a defence were nowhere to be seen. It was honestly like watching a very budget version of Lampard and Gerrard for England, it was horrible. Like both of them they looked way out of their depth and seemed to have no clue of what to do with the ball at their feet.

We brought in Pace but hardly ever used it, how do you expect to relieve pressure if your attacking players cant even get on the shoulder or make the runs to put pressure on the opposition defence. I don't think I saw a run off the defenders shoulder all game. The CM / DM positions will cost us again this season.

The defence looked like pre-season and last seasons. Some major work needed there. I said It before but I still maintain Ogbonna is a bang average defender, only good for an aerial duel. The others you have to give them the benefit of the doubt until we see them more over an extended period of time to assess how good they are or can be.

Lukerz

Also was weird that Pelle coached us to play so high. I mean he obviously has success playing that way or he wouldn’t do it but against the likes of Salah and Mane. But maybe he took getting in a PL game playing a high line and that experience over getting a result yesterday.

Yeoldhammer

Playing a high line is absolutely fine in my book, I have no qualms with Pellegrini doing that against any team as long as your attacking players are pinning their full backs in their own half. This simple wasn't happening, Pelle should have seen this after the first goal went in that it wasn't working and adjusted accordingly.

Huttonhammer

Noble , Rice and Wilshere in midfield would not work against any team let alone Liverpool. A massive mistake in Pellegrini's first game in charge.
If he persists with playing Noble we will be over run in midfield in most games. He is not quick enough to play in the premier league any more and I do not understand why manager after manager does not realise this fact.

Cuz1

A win next week will put this game behind us as disappointing as the performance was it was Liverpool away who were just to quick for us, in my opinion they will be close to or win the league this season, like I said performance poor but things can only get better

EXETERHAMMER

Whether or not Noble is dropped, I still feel 5 at the back is the way forward 5-2-3 type formation.

OutcastLondoner

Is it really so obviously Noble who should be dropped? I don't think Rice is cut out for the DM role unless he has more mobile midfielders around him - which we don't have. Obiang is the closest. Rice is too clunky in his movement to play that role against fast moving attacks.

secrethammersfan

Rice seemed to be caught high and wide a few times yesterday, too. Probably due to his youth and inexperience, but what do I know?

alderz

I think it’s unfair to judge Rice as a holding midfielder from that game. He seemed to be playing on the left of a flat midfield three, rather than as an anchor behind Noble and Wilshere. I think the three can work well together but only if Rice is the central one and sitting deeper than the others.

Barney

I thought we lacked energy, failed to close their players down and all our midfield had a poor game. Arnie was too isolated and there was a lack of movement up front. by comparison as soon as we were on the ball Liverpool players were all over us. Personally I think we need a stronger captain on the pitch - I never saw Noble geeing up the players at all. Good to see Anderson tracking back but both he and antonio added little going forward. I think Antonio lost the ball almost every time he got it. Hey ho on to the next game

secrethammersfan

At halftime, we had almost 50% possession. I think this is interesting, and should be explored and exploited by the management.

Kuchinghammer

I've just deleted a rant about the Old Boys being better than the New Boys, becaue it is early days and the team needs time to bed in. I don't think this will happen in the next two games, either, so patience and any substance that reduces people to a state of semi-consciousness are needed. COYI!

secrethammersfan

I find a 4-0 defeat is often able to return people to a state of semi-consciousness.

TheMadcapLaughs

alderz said:

I think it’s unfair to judge Rice as a holding midfielder from that game. He seemed to be playing on the left of a flat midfield three, rather than as an anchor behind Noble and Wilshere. I think the three can work well together but only if Rice is the central one and sitting deeper than the others.

Or he could drop a little further back and join Ogbonna and Balbuena in a back three, with Fredericks and Masuaku playing as wing backs. Not sure if a back three would suit us though ;hmm

A back three, I wonder ;hmm

Adam

It looks like Noble is doing that Evening Standard column every week, which is normally done by our manager.

I can imagine Pellgrini looking a bit perplexed when they asked him about it. “I’m a manager not an author”.

ASLEFshrugged

I can't find any record of Pellegrini ever starting with three at the back, not even when he was at Malaga or Villarreal against Real Madrid or Barcelona

PrestonHammer

I think it is quite clear that the defenders are going to have to learn to defend properly and the central midfield are going to have to find a way of not parting like the Red Sea whenever someone runs at them.

TheMadcapLaughs

Aslef, I think you are right. Just seems so frustrating to me that over the past two seasons the one thing we seemed to have learned is that we look a damn sight better playing a back three. I know Pellers will persevere with a four, I know that he has been successful over many years playing a back four, I know that we will have success playing a back four (can`t see us losing 4--0 every week) but it just seems to be a case of banging your head against a brick wall for the sheer pleasure of banging your head against a brick wall. With the players we have I would love to see us play either 3-4-3 or 3-5-2 depending on availability, opposition etc etc.

I watched us sunday and refrained from commenting as any post would appear knee jerk and unnecessarily negative. Having slept on it and taken a full day to calm down I still fail to see any positives from the match. I thought we were as bad as any of our worst performances over the last 5 years. There was nothing. No fluency, no cohesion, no goal threat, no ball retention, nothing. I am hoping against hope that this really was just a really bad day at the office and Liverpool were at the very top of their game and we were surely at the very bottom. I am genuinely excited about this season, I just don`t want another season where we fail to compete in a large proportion of games. We could have easily lost on sunday by seven or eight.

;scarf

adecoker

PrestonHammer said:

the central midfield are going to have to find a way of not parting like the Red Sea whenever someone runs at them.

I think they'll be on a hiding to nothing against Chelsea if Moses is playing.

Colchester_Iron

We should have prioritised getting in some defensive defenders.

McHammer

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45158915

Cuz1

adecoker said:

PrestonHammer said:

the central midfield are going to have to find a way of not parting like the Red Sea whenever someone runs at them.

I think they'll be on a hiding to nothing against Chelsea if Moses is playing.

Or Man City with Jesus