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Comments
We'll see, but if various factions are threatening violence on each other if the march goes ahead then I think even if it gets the go-ahead from the council, the restrictions will be such (in terms of route and so on) that the organisers might not want to take it forward. I can see, for example, it not being allowed on a match day, or not being allowed anywhere near the stadium/Stratford.
I shall observe with interest ;ok
A possibility was that the group committee recognised that after negotiating with Brady as if holding the power to march or call it off that it became too embarrassing to have told her ok we will call it off and then not be able to because a large part of the group were going to ignore you. Brady would have been wondering why she was negotiating with you and any possibility of an ongoing relationship would have been finished.
Another possibility which I have considered is that someone told the group committee that the march would not be taking place and that if it did they would be held accountable. There are football firms made up of pretty handy guys who know there way around a ruck and there is also a whole different category all together, being an East London club it would not be too difficult to work out who that may be.
My only real reason for thinking this is that the message last week that the march was off was handled so badly that it came across that there could be no discussion, no vote by members, something I am sure would have naturally have been suggested, it was as if that march had to be stopped and I cant think of too many things that would have provoked that much urgency.
The other possibility is that they just didn't know what to do when the club had been so reasonable and acquiesced to so many points that they realised they couldn't retain credibility within dialogue and negotiation if receiving so much and still marching. Their lack of experience in managing such a large group then got exposed through very misjudged communication which snowballed out of control.
As I have said though I am pleased it has been reigned in these last few days and come under control of someone I imagine advising them very well now.
I also think the club responded very well and reasonably and so I agree with not marching although it could possibly have been allowed to happen under a different banner, more of celebration, and still serve as a show of numbers. The big setback was the appalling misjudgement on how the march was cancelled and how the aftermath of that was dealt with. The root of this also stems back to an earlier mismanagement where there were things inflamed as really anti board to possibly create support and enthusiasm that couldn't then be dampened down when needed.
I actually think despite the flared tempers last week caused by reaction upon reaction, which ended up sad and shattering, that the group committee had the best intentions and did a good job. I hope a credible explanation of what happened comes out as it is deserved I feel by a lot of people who invested a lot of hope in the group. Should it do so it may be able to recover but my feeling is it will just be a facebook group now. It was however very nearly something quite special in my view, in the shape of union representation within a football club demonstrating the difference between a normal business and something invested in by people with so much more than just money but their identification and sense of belonging in some cases. It was very nearly brilliant..........
A complete mess.
“Unfortunately it is not simply a case of ‘taking over the existing plan’ because there is no existing plan to speak of,” the Council wrote. “We had one brief meeting last week with [WHRFAG] where a couple of alternative routes were discussed and we were awaiting a detailed route plan and event management plan but have not received anything since.”
Which answers my earlier question.
Threats have been made, threats of physical violence if fans do not do what the ‘Real West Ham fans’ have dictated.
Personally, I genuinely thought that the pressure group under the RWHFAG banner had done a good job in getting the membership up to 16000, to force the board to at least meet with them to press for some, I thought, easy wins.
The 'meltdowns' on social media on Saturday night were very worrying, but the aftermath may have had the galvanising effect to get the mainstream media interested, something that Sully will hate, and that Brady will worry about hurting her 'brand', by being associated with the ICF, something she went into the meetings knowing.
There was also a private meeting at Sullys house, between Sullivan and Andy Swallow and his son, confirmed by Swallow himself, that the Club are now trying to say didnt happen.
I personally would not now be surprised if the whole 'March' could have been a stitch up from start to finish, and the whole story is now unravelling due to the actions of the WHUISA and other groups who wanted the march to carry on. I now have 20 20 hindsight !
It could be a difficult one for Sullivan - If the club disassociates itself from RWHG due to the ICF threats made, who do they deal with in the future, and will they feel they need to follow through on the limited number of concessions made so far, and the promises made to donate to Isla's fund if the march were called off (despicable in itself) ?
I feel that there is more to come
Most depressing thing is the assertion that the only thing we're ever truly been the best at is Hooliganism.
Well, as long as, in the end, the board come out badly in your narrative, that's job done, isn't it?
You couldn't make it up (although you do seem to be trying to...)
Didn't George Orwell write about something like that?
Do you mean that you think it likely that the board and the Real group colluded to pretend there was going to be a march (but always intending to call it off) so that they could... what?
Or that the club wasn't part of the collusion, but the whole 'fake' march was for some reason (?what reason) an elaborate con by the ICF?
#confused
I think I've been pretty consistent in my feelings on here towards this board - I dont see why you should feel surprised. I feel that I contribute to the rich tapestry of opinion re the board - some dont see any problem with them - I do.
I want a change because I dont think they are in this for the long term, are earning deferred compound interest on the debt, and are not writing the debt down, are underinvesting in the team, and have effectively sold the Boleyn for £8.7m.
Do I need to go on ?
Believe me, I'm not making anything up, the truth is worse than I could have imagined when they took over. I am posting some opinions from elsewhere on this that I agree with, or things that I have looked up myself.
Let me turn the question on its head, what do you like about the Board, and how do you think they could have done things differently ?
I'm indifferent to your dislike of the board; that isn't the issue for me.
I'm just pointing out that you seem happy to change your narrative as it suits, so long as the end result is that you get to paint the board in a negative light.
It's a shame there isn't a way to search for information.
Then you'd be able to answer your own question...
(Or you could try reading back a bit.)
"Do you mean that you think it likely that the board and the Real group colluded to pretend there was going to be a march (but always intending to call it off) so that they could... what?"
I'm just considering all options - bear with me - could make a good thriller ;biggrin
1. Fans are annoyed with the Board
2. Ex ICF 'face' announces formation of Fan group to hold the board to account.
3. Membership takes off, other groups want to get involved to present united front.
Board realises this could get serious, and would be bad for board's media image.
4.Sully has private meet with Andy Swallow and family member - to discuss unknown things. These could include - in my fevered imagination:
a) Do you want to earn some money ?
b) Here are the Questions/Requests we'd like you to make - I dont want to talk
about money/our ownership/Transfers - you can ask Karren anything else you
want about Flags etc - but nothing embarrasing
c) When we agree to them, you arrange for the march to be called off - so dont
do too much prep for it !
d) If all goes to plan - We'll reimburse travel expenses and stick some money in
the Isla fund
d) Your reputation will mean that people will follow your lead -
and we will look good as having had a constructive meeting with the fans and working with them.
e) How do you want it - BACS or Cash ?
5. Meeting takes place with Brady and goes as planned - March called off by AS
6. "Oh no its not" say other groups
7. AS gets a phone call from Sully's 'associates'.
8. Social Media Carnage ensues
Yes - it is a bit far fetched - but good fun to speculate
If people dont agree with it thats fine - I'll wait for the book to come out.