Brighton (Home) Friday 20th 8pm (match thread)

tomkinsworldclass

I will always defend Antonio because he is a beast of a player and a throwback in terms of not being over-produced within the acadamey culture, so his quirks, nuances and idiosyncrasies are what make him such a force. However my criticisms were just in regards to defending at any professional football level because they were incredibly basic. Heres the highlights:-https://www.whufc.com/news/articles/2017/october/22-october/highlights-west-ham-united-0-3-brighton-hove-albion

For the 1st: Reid is marking Murray and Antonio is supposed to be screening in front for the exact reason to how/why they scored- any ball centrally he is the first man and a difficult man to beat at that because of his size, power and aerial ability. His starting body position is poor, he is late to actually get back in line and he gets completely under the cross as a result. Dont get me wrong, theres other issues with the goal in a wider sense but directly for the goal it is all Antonio.

For the 2nd:-The highlights package above actually does Antonio a favour because in full it is much more prolonged. The sun shows it better:-https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/4733244/west-ham-0-brighton-3-slaven-bilic-pressure-glenn-murray/ He makes no effort to get back into position, to defend, to help out Zaba/Obiang which eventually means Obaing has to get dragged out (Antonio not in a position to even cover him) and once the Brighton player rides off the Obiang tackle he is free to get a shot in in a good position. Its not a witch-hunt or anything untoward Antonio as Im a big fan of his but for the 2 goals it was inexcusable IMO and not something Bilic should directly be blamed for as they are the basics of any pro footballer.

mike

Our energy levels are terrible, everybody not only antonio are just sauntering back to defend for that second goal.

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

Funny you should mention that MOTD2 showed that we’re 20th in distance covered and sprints made

Lukerz

And those stats that came up. No first half goal at the OS this season (very rarely ever), and only 5 wins in the 40 times we've fallen 0-1 down under Bilic.

As Jorderz says, we are just awful to watch.

horshamhammer

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard said:

Funny you should mention that MOTD2 showed that we’re 20th in distance covered and sprints made

Very damning. Not surprising though, as we've heard a lot in the past about the lack of intensity in our training, for example:

Zaza on struggling to adapt

“I was not good physically. I had been through pre-season with Juventus so I was okay.
“When I got there [West Ham] I found a different method of training – you exercise less, sometimes the sessions last 40 minutes and almost immediately I didn’t feel good. “I need to train more, for someone to kick my ass."

Jaap Stam on Reece Oxford at Reading

"But when he came over here, and he said it himself, it's totally different to what he was used to at West Ham in the intensity and in how we work.

Enner Valencia on loan to Everton

“I have enjoyed training with my new team-mates, it’s different to my last team - it is a little bit harder.”

So it's all very peculiar when Slav says that the players look good in training. So either they are just unfit or they are fit and not trying. Not a good scenario either way.

Lukerz

Horsh ;ok

Very interesting.

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

I can’t say we ever play with much intensity apart from when we play Spurs at home.

Also, I agree Antonio looked disinterested against Brighton, but he was far from the only one.

His levels seemed to drop after he was down for a couple of minutes early on, actually, so I’m wondering if he was either carrying something, or concerned about getting injured again.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Think he could also be demoralised as he seems to be the only guy who tries to be proactive and take people on

But the training is obviously a big problem, and tbf that's the first thing that goes when the team are low in confidence

It's not like we don't have athletic players there is just no cohesion so they don't press as a team

People say preseason is only for fitness but in preseason a lot of us saw the team had no energy and they have gone into this season similarly sluggish

Can't even blame the Europa league this year

Last season,apart from United, all of the top teams were pretty high for distance covered and sprints made even though they all played far more games due to champions league commitments....I know their players were also a lot more talented but it shows that fitness/intensity is key and we are showing neither

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

Antonio clearly changed after he got a knee to the ribs, also he was continually not getting decisions from the ref

thornburyiron

That highlights another problem for me when we lose the ball especially if the player goes to ground but doesn’t get a free kick, they sit there banging the ground and moaning at the ref. He isn’t going to change his mind so get up and get on with it

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

That probably applies to many PL/footballers

TwistandShout

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5010009/West-Ham-players-hold-crisis-talks-training-ground.html

Nobes ;bowdown

ASLEFshrugged

Ginger too

thornburyiron

I see little merit in praising Nobes for having a go because there seemed no emotion in the dressing room Friday but as captain if players are not happy with tactics or training methods, which we fans believe are non existent, he should be discussing their concerns with Slav. They should also be his concerns.

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

First off you rarely seem happy about anything Thorn ;lol secondly you’re not speaking for me when it comes to non-existent training or tactics

;ok

MrsGrey

Nor me.

mike

Well i would agree with you thorn.
I was there friday,the energy levels leading to lack of pace,slow build up and the tracking back in defence was shocking.Something ian wright correctly picked up on MOTD2.
Why doesn't he get asked these questions in post match interviews.?
I just have this feeling that if we beat palace on saturday the two davids will think everything is rosy in the camp and we will carry on with bilic until the next disaster or even relegation.
Rant over
Mike

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

The stats on MOTD 2 were based over the season so far, not just one game. Obviously they don’t make good reading, but we did do a lot of running especially in the first half but it wasn’t happening for us unfortunately.

But to say and agree with non-existent training and tactics is just way over the top

grey_til_I_dye

We are one of at least 8 teams who are playing badly and/or doing badly so far this season, from West Brom down.

Unless you are going to argue that none of those teams have tactics or training methods, then perhaps it would be better to accept that there are complex reasons why teams struggle.

mike

Slaven

I don't think it was just a case of not happening for us.
We had a spell in the first half when we were all over brighton but didn't create any chances due to brighton being strong defensively and our players getting the ball in good positions and then not knowing what to do with it.Second half we couldn't deal with the brighton counter attacks because our tracking back is too slow.
I agreed with thorn because questions have to be asked about our training methods.I am not saying they are non-existent because i don't have that privilege of watching them train but i have read from ex players who went to other clubs saying that the training at west ham wasn't as hard and intensive.

Yeoldhammer

grey_til_I_dye said:

We are one of at least 8 teams who are playing badly and/or doing badly so far this season, from West Brom down.

Unless you are going to argue that none of those teams have tactics or training methods, then perhaps it would be better to accept that there are complex reasons why teams struggle.

What's your take on why West Ham are struggling.

thornburyiron

Non existent was obviously an OTT statement as they do train but whatever they do do is non effective. Their fitness and stamina is sadly lacking and if anyone can see any kind of tactical plans in games perhaps they can post them.
This year and last pre season was a shambles as no patterns of play emerged. I said during pre season that it shouldn’t all be about fitness because if that’s all we concentrate on then come the first game we won’t know what we are doing. We are 9 games in and still don’t know what we are doing and our fitness levels seem to be below what you’d expect.

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

If they didn’t train or nothing was effective then they’d lose anywhere between 5-10 nil every week

There are so many factors and fine lines involved, of course there are tactics they’re just working!!

jay_in_cpt

My main worry is simply the teams we have faced compared to a few around us....
We have only had Man U & Spurs from the top few, some around has had a more tricky start...

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

That should’ve said “not working”

;doh

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

All comes out in the wash Jay, no need to panic yet, give it until Sunday at least ;ok

IronHerb

We haven't played anyone below us yet. ;biggrin