Brighton (Home) Friday 20th 8pm (match thread)

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  • Slaven_Cups_His_BeardSlaven_Cups_His_Beard
    They normally go hand in hand, but I know what you mean. If they go the untested and cheap route they’re possibly playing Russian roulette
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    ;ok
  • Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_MoyesJorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes
    Looking at the attacking four we had against Brighton, somebody like Bielsa would get so much more out of them. I want to enjoy watching us attack. I haven’t enjoyed it since Payet left.

    We’ve won games here and there but it’s pretty much always a struggle. Add that to defeats of this kind and there’s nothing to like about watching us at the moment. Even when we beat Swansea and Huddersfield I didn’t enjoy the games.

    We were better going forward and defensively under Allardyce. We have better players now which is balancing it, but a better manager will get so much more out of these guys, IMO.
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    Under Allerdyce at times. We also had games like Brighton with him as well don't forget.
  • welovethehammerswelovethehammers
    We were definitely better defensively under Allardyce but we are better going forward now
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    IronHerb said:

    Not worried about a decent name, I want a decent manger.

    As were Joseph and Mary
  • Slaven_Cups_His_BeardSlaven_Cups_His_Beard
    Far better defensively under SA we did suffer the odd hiding but that was normally when we had injury problems

    In Slavs first season we always came back and you always felt we would at some point. Now we just fold like a pack of cards

    While one player doesn’t make a team the effect Payet had on this side was clearly huge and possibly papered over the cracks

  • NEoldironNEoldiron
    Aslef ;lol ;lol
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    edited October 2017
    ASLEFshrugged said:

    IronHerb said:

    Not worried about a decent name, I want a decent manger.

    As were Joseph and Mary
    If I need to take to prayer then so be it. ;whistle
  • Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_MoyesJorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes
    welovethehammers said:

    We were definitely better defensively under Allardyce but we are better going forward now

    I disagree. I think we have far superior players now which on occasion do something individually. Tactically, we have no clear way of playing under Bilic at all IMO.
  • AdMeus_CaputFiliusAdMeus_CaputFilius
    edited October 2017
    alderz said:

    Boleyn: 110 x 70 yard
    OS: 115 x 74 yards

    How much difference does that make in actual terms?

    So the old pitch is 7,700 Square Yards (69.300 Square Feet) and the new one is 8,510 Square Yards (76,590 Square feet). The difference is 810 Square yards (7,290 Square Feet) which is roughly an 85ft X 85ft square of additional playing area. So theoretically this could have been a problem in the first season.

    Anyone know how big the training pitches are? If these is still the same size as the old pitch it could be a big part of the problem.
  • thornburyironthornburyiron
    edited October 2017
    Rush Green pitches are all the same as the London Stadium and that was deliberate so the players would be used to it.
  • thornburyironthornburyiron
    Which of course is the standard size for PL pitches.
  • stevesteve
    ;hmm just thinking did the players get the weekend off after that .if I was Bilic would have them in all weekend .trying to get them use to a football again
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    They were off yesterday and in today.
  • stevesteve
    ;ok
  • tomkinsworldclasstomkinsworldclass
    Antonios defending for the first 2 goals is extraordinary. I didnt pick it up real time in the stadium but his body position and technique is all wrong and gets caught way under the ball which is why Reid couldnt get across in time. The 2nd is emblematic of the whole performance, just strolling back expecting his teammates to cover for him despite the ball being well within his purview. And its not like he cant do it, Antonio is a good defender and with his physical attributes he is a beast but it just demonstrates that once they cross that line its down to individuals to produce a certain level of performance in terms of doing the basics.
  • welovethehammerswelovethehammers
    tomkinsworldclass said:

    Antonios defending for the first 2 goals is extraordinary. I didnt pick it up real time in the stadium but his body position and technique is all wrong and gets caught way under the ball which is why Reid couldnt get across in time. The 2nd is emblematic of the whole performance, just strolling back expecting his teammates to cover for him despite the ball being well within his purview. And its not like he cant do it, Antonio is a good defender and with his physical attributes he is a beast but it just demonstrates that once they cross that line its down to individuals to produce a certain level of performance in terms of doing the basics.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought it was Obiang who was badly positioned for Brighton's first
  • LukerzLukerz
    edited October 2017
    twc ;ok

    Never been convinced by Antonio anyway. I often see him as lazy and quite greedy. A supreme athlete but his actual football brain and ability is not PL level IMO.

    Maybe should spend more time on basic footballing abilities like control and passing than his goal-scoring celebrations.
  • Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_MoyesJorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes
    He’s been our most consistent attacking player since Bilic took over, and highest goalscorer (I believe). Give him a break.
  • FortuneseekerFortuneseeker
    I think the whole team had a break on Friday night. ;angry
  • tomkinsworldclasstomkinsworldclass
    I will always defend Antonio because he is a beast of a player and a throwback in terms of not being over-produced within the acadamey culture, so his quirks, nuances and idiosyncrasies are what make him such a force. However my criticisms were just in regards to defending at any professional football level because they were incredibly basic. Heres the highlights:-https://www.whufc.com/news/articles/2017/october/22-october/highlights-west-ham-united-0-3-brighton-hove-albion

    For the 1st: Reid is marking Murray and Antonio is supposed to be screening in front for the exact reason to how/why they scored- any ball centrally he is the first man and a difficult man to beat at that because of his size, power and aerial ability. His starting body position is poor, he is late to actually get back in line and he gets completely under the cross as a result. Dont get me wrong, theres other issues with the goal in a wider sense but directly for the goal it is all Antonio.

    For the 2nd:-The highlights package above actually does Antonio a favour because in full it is much more prolonged. The sun shows it better:-https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/4733244/west-ham-0-brighton-3-slaven-bilic-pressure-glenn-murray/ He makes no effort to get back into position, to defend, to help out Zaba/Obiang which eventually means Obaing has to get dragged out (Antonio not in a position to even cover him) and once the Brighton player rides off the Obiang tackle he is free to get a shot in in a good position. Its not a witch-hunt or anything untoward Antonio as Im a big fan of his but for the 2 goals it was inexcusable IMO and not something Bilic should directly be blamed for as they are the basics of any pro footballer.
  • mikemike
    Our energy levels are terrible, everybody not only antonio are just sauntering back to defend for that second goal.
  • Slaven_Cups_His_BeardSlaven_Cups_His_Beard
    Funny you should mention that MOTD2 showed that we’re 20th in distance covered and sprints made
  • LukerzLukerz
    And those stats that came up. No first half goal at the OS this season (very rarely ever), and only 5 wins in the 40 times we've fallen 0-1 down under Bilic.

    As Jorderz says, we are just awful to watch.
  • horshamhammerhorshamhammer
    Slaven_Cups_His_Beard said:

    Funny you should mention that MOTD2 showed that we’re 20th in distance covered and sprints made

    Very damning. Not surprising though, as we've heard a lot in the past about the lack of intensity in our training, for example:

    Zaza on struggling to adapt

    “I was not good physically. I had been through pre-season with Juventus so I was okay.
    “When I got there [West Ham] I found a different method of training – you exercise less, sometimes the sessions last 40 minutes and almost immediately I didn’t feel good. “I need to train more, for someone to kick my ass."

    Jaap Stam on Reece Oxford at Reading

    "But when he came over here, and he said it himself, it's totally different to what he was used to at West Ham in the intensity and in how we work.

    Enner Valencia on loan to Everton

    “I have enjoyed training with my new team-mates, it’s different to my last team - it is a little bit harder.”

    So it's all very peculiar when Slav says that the players look good in training. So either they are just unfit or they are fit and not trying. Not a good scenario either way.
  • LukerzLukerz
    Horsh ;ok

    Very interesting.
  • Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_MoyesJorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes
    I can’t say we ever play with much intensity apart from when we play Spurs at home.

    Also, I agree Antonio looked disinterested against Brighton, but he was far from the only one.

    His levels seemed to drop after he was down for a couple of minutes early on, actually, so I’m wondering if he was either carrying something, or concerned about getting injured again.
  • WHU_Champo_league_in_7_yearsWHU_Champo_league_in_7_years
    Think he could also be demoralised as he seems to be the only guy who tries to be proactive and take people on

    But the training is obviously a big problem, and tbf that's the first thing that goes when the team are low in confidence

    It's not like we don't have athletic players there is just no cohesion so they don't press as a team

    People say preseason is only for fitness but in preseason a lot of us saw the team had no energy and they have gone into this season similarly sluggish

    Can't even blame the Europa league this year

    Last season,apart from United, all of the top teams were pretty high for distance covered and sprints made even though they all played far more games due to champions league commitments....I know their players were also a lot more talented but it shows that fitness/intensity is key and we are showing neither
  • Slaven_Cups_His_BeardSlaven_Cups_His_Beard
    Antonio clearly changed after he got a knee to the ribs, also he was continually not getting decisions from the ref
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