Burnley V West Ham, Sunday 16th Aug, 16:00 - Match thread

jay_in_cpt · August 16

Lukerz said:
I was also a little worried how Flemming dominated Mavropanos

If we really think about it, Fleming could have had 4-5 goals himself....They had many chances, good chances, we hardly created anything apart from the 2 goals....

Lukerz · August 16

I think the draw was definitely the least they deserved, so in that sense I am not disappointed with a point - but the manner of how we surrendered it (meekly) was the concerning bit

Burnley or Wolves away, on paper, would be the toughest game to have as an opening fixture, second half Burnley could have scored 3 before they got the goal & we only had one moment, Solomon’s goal

Even first half, they had several half chances, even if we were better than our second half showing

Not a disaster but should let everybody know that we need more bodies, even if it’s going to take a monumental merry-go-round of movement to make it all happen in two weeks

We will also get better as the games go by (IMO)

Our best midfield is going to be Soucek & Engels - neither played today

EXETERHAMMER · August 16

Flemming is very good

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years · August 16

Burnley are going to be among the favorites to go up, not jsut because they like us are a relegated Prem side but also the last 2 times they got relegated they immediately jumped straight back into the Prem

The manner of how the end went obviously makes it seem awful, but getting a point away at a promotion rival isn't so bad

Thought Solomon looked excellent, think Kante and Orford showed a lot of promise, actually thought Felipe was really good and we regressed massively once he went off. Scarles headless is a problem, needs to cut out the errors.

We missed the steel of Alvarez who we assumed was going to stay, but also missed Engles who'll be a first teamer for sure

Seems we're after a striker and a CB, hopefully Parrott and Disasi, and that would help massively especially if the striker comes with Taty staying

Deanscaleshammer · August 16

Scarles is young and had a great game linking up with Solomon imo. Made a rash challenge that cost us which can happen.

Pengeman · August 16

It seems like a loss. 2-0 up, 18 minutes to go and we drop 2 points, again. We dropped too many points form winning position last year. Hoping for something different this year. Portsmouth targeted Scarles last week and he struggled. The same repeated today. Burnley had better chances We didn't have any game changers on the bench and JWP was hardly in the game. Need reinforcements for the next game. Play Diouf if he still at WHU, or try Myers at left-back.

claretandbluesky · August 16

Deanscaleshammer said:
Scarles is young and had a great game linking up with Solomon imo. Made a rash challenge that cost us which can happen.

I agree, I think he was a contender for man of the match until his error. Unfortunately it was a particularly poor and costly error. Hopefully it will form part of his education and he won't become a player who always has that in him. A more experienced defender knows you can risk that challenge anywhere but in the box.

Lukerz · August 16

Flemming showed what having a good striker at this level does - second half it was basically Flemming v West Ham. He was immense. Could’ve had four goals. As poor as we were second half, if he didn’t play for Burnley, we’d have taken 3 points.

jay_in_cpt · August 17

Sad to say if you hear Nuno’s post match interview it’s just copy and paste from last year.
Burnley were the better team IMO throughout, we offered little apart from the 2 goals, they could have scored 5 on another day.
Reinforcements needed for sure, let’s see if they improve us and still make Nuno the right man to take us back up…

Lukerz · August 17

I think one of the issues is not having a side that can control the play & take pressure off the defence - it felt to me that the back four were having to defend for the entire second half - probably because Orford & Kante never fully got the better of the Burnley midfield. Hopefully, Engels will help us dictate games better & with attacking reinforcements we will be capable of keeping the ball away from our defenders more often. We need one more CB but the rest of our signings should be up the top end of the pitch unless we sell anybody else. It may also be worth considering a DM we, even in the first half, nobody really protected that back four. Souček will help.

I didn’t agree with the commentators first half assessment - that ‘West Ham were in complete control’. I never felt we were in control. I felt we had more of the ball (Burnley chose to sit back) & more attacking situations but it seemed to me that whenever we lost the ball & Burnley had it, they were in & around our box very quickly, usually with a half chance.

BubblesNeverDies · August 17

We all seem to be in agreement regarding how essential it is that Taty stays but I thought he was fairly anonymous yesterday.

jay_in_cpt · August 17

Yesterday also proved one thing for me, Taty cannot play alone up front, without Pablo, he looked lost and isolated, not his fault, again, wrong tactics used IMO.

jay_in_cpt · August 17

BubblesNeverDies said:
We all seem to be in agreement regarding how essential it is that Taty stays but I thought he was fairly anonymous yesterday.

Agreed, but he had zero service literally throughout the whole game IMO

Lukerz · August 17

The fact that Pablo had to come off & we couldn’t keep the same system after our first sub tells us all we need 1/2 attacking players brought in. Piroe & Nelson will be ok, Isidor would be ideal.

Lukerz · August 17

Nuno gets a lot of stick - West Ham have been throwing away leads since I was 11. Those players yesterday should have been more than experienced enough to see out a 2-0/2-1 game - Veltman, Mavropanos, Kilman, Diouf, JWP, Solomon, Bowen, Taty, KWP. It’s not short of experience.

Lukerz · August 17

So 2/3 of our goals already conceded this season from second phases of corners 🤔

Giant_Hammer · August 17

I remember thinking after the home game against Bournemouth last season when we sat back and gave away a 2 goal lead that I hoped it wouldn’t come back to bite us at the end of the season and look what happened. If we’re in the mix for promotion at the end of this season, sitting back again and those two points dropped could well make the difference.

Fortuneseeker · August 17

Nuno should get a lot of stick. I was advised at the weekend the players have to do what a manager tells them & as was shown yesterday & last season they can’t defend leads as instructed to do?

jay_in_cpt · August 17

Lukerz said:
Nuno gets a lot of stick - West Ham have been throwing away leads since I was 11. Those players yesterday should have been more than experienced enough to see out a 2-0/2-1 game - Veltman, Mavropanos, Kilman, Diouf, JWP, Solomon, Bowen, Taty, KWP. It’s not short of experience.

His tactics Luke don't exactly help his cause, I mean come on!!! Nuno is a master of it.....

Lukerz · August 17

But we know Nuno hasn’t said to the players ‘sit deep, invite pressure, don’t attack, concede possession’ - some of these so called experienced players have been getting a pass for too long whilst Nuno takes the flack 👍

Fortuneseeker · August 17

So why do we stop attacking for the full ninety minutes then? Other teams would use attack as the best form of defence, keeping the ball away from our goal surely improves the chances of the opposition not scoring or am I missing something? He is weakening the team by not playing the best players available & no I won't change the record!

jay_in_cpt · August 17

Lukerz said:
But we know Nuno hasn’t said to the players ‘sit deep, invite pressure, don’t attack, concede possession’ - some of these so called experienced players have been getting a pass for too long whilst Nuno takes the flack 👍

But we don't know that, he brings on defenders, not to attack......!!!
This is nothing new with Nuno, it's IMO in his DNA....

I'm gonna throw this out here, if we're not in the top 6 come Christmas, he'll be gone....

Lukerz · August 17

jay_in_cpt said:

Lukerz said:
But we know Nuno hasn’t said to the players ‘sit deep, invite pressure, don’t attack, concede possession’ - some of these so called experienced players have been getting a pass for too long whilst Nuno takes the flack 👍
But we don't know that, he brings on defenders, not to attack......!!!
This is nothing new with Nuno, it's IMO in his DNA....

I'm gonna throw this out here, if we're not in the top 6 come Christmas, he'll be gone....

Well Nuno said as much in his post match comments:
"We should have kept the ball more and tried to exploit a little bit more of the space that we had. But overall, the result, the chances of Burnley, ourselves, we have to be fair."

Part of the reason we end up with defensive players on the pitch is because we have no attacking ones currently; the academy lads on the bench should really be on loan in League One/Two.

It’s not all on Nuno, IMO. The team that ended the game was experienced enough to see out a win.

EXETERHAMMER · August 17

Hindsight is easy but…..
when Pablo was replaced, we had options and Nuno made the wrong choice.

Walker-Peters could have played further up on the right with Veltman behind.

Diouf should have come on earlier as Solomon was struggling in the last 15 mins.

Kante could play Pablo’s role then we could have kept Bowen on the right

Could have gone 5 at the back when Veltman came on if we really wanted to defend the lead.

We didn’t do any of that and we were punished for it.

Nuno made the wrong decision as did Scarles for the penalty. We need to learn quickly how to keep a lead.

More players in will help, but we had options yesterday to have kept that lead.

Yesterday was on Nuno and Scarles

Lukerz · August 17

I am not sure going to a back five, bringing on Diouf or playing KWP as a RW after Pablo went off would have given the right message - he made the most attacking change he could with a bench with limited attacking options. The wrong call was to move Bowen central, in hindsight. The ideal scenario would have been that Pablo was replaced by another striker, allowing us to keep our 4-4-2 shape. But we didn’t have one. I think Nuno would have made that change if we had. Last season, Nuno regularly took Pablo off for Wilson, or vice versa, so he usually does replace like for like in games.

jay_in_cpt · August 17

Lukerz said:

jay_in_cpt said:

Lukerz said:
But we know Nuno hasn’t said to the players ‘sit deep, invite pressure, don’t attack, concede possession’ - some of these so called experienced players have been getting a pass for too long whilst Nuno takes the flack 👍
But we don't know that, he brings on defenders, not to attack......!!!
This is nothing new with Nuno, it's IMO in his DNA....

I'm gonna throw this out here, if we're not in the top 6 come Christmas, he'll be gone....
Well Nuno said as much in his post match comments:
"We should have kept the ball more and tried to exploit a little bit more of the space that we had. But overall, the result, the chances of Burnley, ourselves, we have to be fair."

Part of the reason we end up with defensive players on the pitch is because we have no attacking ones currently; the academy lads on the bench should really be on loan in League One/Two.

It’s not all on Nuno, IMO. The team that ended the game was experienced enough to see out a win.

I hear & understand, and to some I agree, like I mentioned b4 the game re the lack of bench going forward ( but we won't talk about that again !!)

Problem for me, it's same old story with NES, he doesn't learn or won't adapt, just IMO of course, but hey, like us all, I want him to succeed, so WHUFC can, so let's see what happens....

Fortuneseeker · August 17

If you want options did we have to sell Callum Marshall to Luton. He had Landers on the bench, don't we still have Daniel Cummings, they may both be young but it's still a forward to keep their defence on alert. Jimmy Jay Morgan aged 20 played for WBA at the weekend and got a goal and an assist.

claretandbluesky · August 17

I actually think all the comments are very reasonable but I also can't help thinking that if Scarles doesn't give that penalty away most comments would look a variation of this.

0-2 is a great away win against a team also looking for promotion this year, we looked vulnerable in the second half but weathered the storm with some good organised defending. We will need reinforcements in areas that looked exposed at times but a great start to the season.

jay_in_cpt · August 17

claretandbluesky said:
I actually think all the comments are very reasonable but I also can't help thinking that if Scarles doesn't give that penalty away most comments would look a variation of this.

0-2 is a great away win against a team also looking for promotion this year, we looked vulnerable in the second half but weathered the storm with some good organised defending. We will need reinforcements in areas that looked exposed at times but a great start to the season.

Didn't see the game the way you think it would have been described if we'd not thrown it away, the 1st half, we had it under control. for sure, however IMO if Burnley had been more competent in front of goal, they could've scored at least 2 in the 1st half having a number of decent chances...

2nd half, we were, in all honesty, rubbish IMO.

Flemming alone could have scored 4 ( 1 off the bar, 1 cleared off the line by Scarles ).

If we were 2 down and got a point, I would have been happier, but in my very honest opinion, it would have been a very underwhelming win, BUT this season is all about results I guess, we don't want to stay in the Championship ( well I don't want us to anyway ).....

Scarles isn't good enough IMO, he's West Ham through & through, which I love, but is he good enough for a first team place, I'm not convinced.....

For me there are many areas that at present ( until the window closes we are short on )...
Also I know it wouldn't be possible, but if it was, I'd love a new keeper, Mads for me is another liability waiting to happen....

Anyway, there were definite positives, Solomon, hanging onto Bowen etc etc....

Lukerz · August 17

It’s not Nuno’s fault that Todibo, Wan-Bissaka, Álvarez, Souček, Magassa, Cornet & Füllkrug were not available for selection yesterday. 6 want to go & 1 is injured. Add those 7 to our bench of Areola & Diouf/Veltman, it looks a different situation for Nuno in the second half. Nuno signed none of those players, but has to pay the price for incompetence of others in the meantime (Souček aside). Six are picking up wages, not contributing & not wanting to be selected.

That’s not aimed at you, Jay, just thoughts in general.

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Burnley V West Ham, Sunday 16th Aug, 16:00 - Match thread

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Burnley V West Ham, Sunday 16th Aug, 16:00 - Match thread

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