Burnley V West Ham, Sunday 16th Aug, 16:00 - Match thread

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Comments

  • FortuneseekerFortuneseeker
    Simply not good enough. Hopefully it will quicken the departures that I have been told on numerous occasions we must do to enable us to make the signings based on that performance we need to make.
  • MIAHammerMIAHammer
    Different league same result.
    At least we didn’t give up three goals from 2-0 up.
    Very uninspiring performance. This is not going to be cake walk.
  • YeoldhammerYeoldhammer
    The pressure mounts.
  • Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_MoyesJorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes
    Lukerz said:

    Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes said:

    The squad is nowhere near good enough

    It’s the mentality more than the squad - a promotion winner side sees that out no matter what
    There’s a loser’s mentality baked into this squad of players, so it’s not a separate issue.

    As the game went on, we didn’t have a single attacking sub to bring on. The youngsters got exposed because of fitness and lack of experience, including Scarles’ silly challenge.
  • CrustyCrusty
    As Yul Brynner famously said in,
    The King And I,
    "It's the hope, etc, etc, etc
  • chicagohammerchicagohammer
    Oh boy where do you start…not a disaster by any means but we need to be honest, honors even but that performance was not good enough and on another day against a premier side, we would have lost by two or three.

    I do not understand why it is that Pablo makes a difference as I do not think he is technically that capable but there is no doubt that he does make a difference, I do not recall JWP making a positive contribution whatsoever
  • LukerzLukerz
    Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes said:

    Lukerz said:

    Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes said:

    The squad is nowhere near good enough

    It’s the mentality more than the squad - a promotion winner side sees that out no matter what
    There’s a loser’s mentality baked into this squad of players, so it’s not a separate issue.

    As the game went on, we didn’t have a single attacking sub to bring on. The youngsters got exposed because of fitness and lack of experience, including Scarles’ silly challenge.
    How do we change the situation? We are relegated? Who do we sign that changes us? We still have 5 or 6 players not contributing but still here? What do we do?
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited August 17
    If Pablo was injured, then I don't see the blame on the manager for the substitution.

    But the consequence caused a shift in positioning and gave Burnley a toehold. Then our players needed to raise their game, and didn't.

    Imo it really showed up that we have a reasonable first XI ( not all brilliant but ok as a team) . But we are significantly weakened when we have to bring on subs as the quality is a clear drop.
  • Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_MoyesJorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes
    Lukerz said:

    Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes said:

    Lukerz said:

    Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes said:

    The squad is nowhere near good enough

    It’s the mentality more than the squad - a promotion winner side sees that out no matter what
    There’s a loser’s mentality baked into this squad of players, so it’s not a separate issue.

    As the game went on, we didn’t have a single attacking sub to bring on. The youngsters got exposed because of fitness and lack of experience, including Scarles’ silly challenge.
    How do we change the situation? We are relegated? Who do we sign that changes us? We still have 5 or 6 players not contributing but still here? What do we do?
    I am aware we've been relegated. It's not my job to scout for West Ham, nor to find the solutions. I'm putting my opinion forward that I don't feel the squad is good enough, even though you and others would tell me we're going to walk the league because we have Bowen.
  • claretandblueskyclaretandbluesky
    I think that's a hard match to review as the result changed on one challenge as much as any match ever has. If Scarles doesn't make that challenge I think we win 2-0 and we are all saying what a great result away at Burnley.

    Lot's of positives in Scarles (challenge aside), Soloman, Walker-Peters, and we looked organised. We will have too much for many sides this season and should have had for Burnley today, the lad dived in and had no reason to, they took that opportunity gifted to them with both hands.

    I am really uncomfortable with Kilman in the side and feel we must bring in another centre back.
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    Fortuneseeker said:

    Simply not good enough. Hopefully it will quicken the departures that I have been told on numerous occasions we must do to enable us to make the signings based on that performance we need to make.

    How exactly do you “quicken the departures”?

    Fullkrug had agreed personal terms with Venezia but it didn’t happen cos Venezia wouldn’t meet our demands

    Still no firm offers for Todibo, Wan-Bissaka, Cornet

    You can’t just wave a magic wand and hey presto unwanted players disappear

  • jay_in_cptjay_in_cpt
    edited August 16
    We're missing some senior players in the middle, some leaders like Soucek/Alvarez, not saying they're the answer tho...
    For me, Scarles is simply not good enough, he always seems to have that stupid mistake in him, but I'll give him the benefit and hope he learns, once again....
    So frustrating to YET AGAIN throw away points, we need players in, somehow, however it's done....
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited August 16
    jay_in_cpt said:

    We never learn, Nuno again.....
    Feels like a loss....
    It's just poor management, and if I'm honest, Burnley deserve the point...

    I'm curious, jay, what you think he did so badly wrong.

    To me, the first sub was forced ( if injury story is true). The manager kept the same formation, didn't go defensive.

    It was his shuffle in formation to move JWP into the middle of midfield that gave us impetus and then our 2nd goal.

    The disaster that led to the pen happened at 82(ISH) minutes. And that was just a poor decision by Scarles.

    The next sub at 85 minutes took off a defender and brought on a defender.

    At 90minutes, the totally knackered Solomon came off and a defender brought on. But the players were shuffled so that KWP was moved to a more advanced position.

    I really don't see how he can be criticised for going to a defensive set up too early.

    Maybe you are thinking he should have made more subs, earlier? More attacking?

    Would be interested in your view.

    Edit, I was typing this while you were making your last post
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    ASLEFshrugged said:

    Fortuneseeker said:

    Simply not good enough. Hopefully it will quicken the departures that I have been told on numerous occasions we must do to enable us to make the signings based on that performance we need to make.

    How exactly do you “quicken the departures”?

    Fullkrug had agreed personal terms with Venezia but it didn’t happen cos Venezia wouldn’t meet our demands

    Still no firm offers for Todibo, Wan-Bissaka, Cornet

    You can’t just wave a magic wand and hey presto unwanted players disappear

    Expelliarmus.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    Quiz


    So, without looking it up, what was the score last season when we played Burnley away and who scored.

    And how many players who played today played in that match?
  • jay_in_cptjay_in_cpt
    Nuno Imo should not have changed the width, he bought JWP on and moved Bowen more central, IMO that was a mistake....
    I know his hands were a bit tied, but that's why he's the boss and I'm not.
    Scarles, like said, he's rash....
    But Burnley had bought so many subs on, we hadn't, we were running on zero, but he didn't react quick enough, even though what was on our bench, like I said before the game, was just weak....
    He has to take some blame IMO, perhaps not all though.....All IMO of course.
  • FortuneseekerFortuneseeker
    ASLEF, Something has to give doesn't it? I have had the "we can't get any new players in until we off load the big earners who have upset NES" and he won't consider putting them in the team for the good of the club mantra. So you tell me how we improve the quality and strength in depth of the squad? Latest rumour is we are trying to organise a loan deal for Piroe from Leeds who scored zero goals last season when we could have bid for Hogh from Bodo who has Champions League experience.
  • FortuneseekerFortuneseeker
    edited August 16
    MrsGrey said:

    Quiz


    So, without looking it up, what was the score last season when we played Burnley away and who scored.

    And how many players who played today played in that match?

    2-0

    Taty & Summerville & five players?
  • EXETERHAMMEREXETERHAMMER
    Perhaps we could get Flemming.

    He is quite good
  • jay_in_cptjay_in_cpt
    If there was no injury to Pablo, then Nuno has to take most of the blame, but I also heard perhaps he picked up a knock.....But if not.......
  • LukerzLukerz
    edited August 16
    Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes said:

    Lukerz said:

    Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes said:

    Lukerz said:

    Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes said:

    The squad is nowhere near good enough

    It’s the mentality more than the squad - a promotion winner side sees that out no matter what
    There’s a loser’s mentality baked into this squad of players, so it’s not a separate issue.

    As the game went on, we didn’t have a single attacking sub to bring on. The youngsters got exposed because of fitness and lack of experience, including Scarles’ silly challenge.
    How do we change the situation? We are relegated? Who do we sign that changes us? We still have 5 or 6 players not contributing but still here? What do we do?
    I am aware we've been relegated. It's not my job to scout for West Ham, nor to find the solutions. I'm putting my opinion forward that I don't feel the squad is good enough, even though you and others would tell me we're going to walk the league because we have Bowen.
    Why do people come across as so passive aggressive on here? I am simply interested in your opinion. I find it hard to see a realistic scenario where we can revamp the squad, with the situation we are in, with a lack of finances & the inability to attract top level players, with players unable to leave, to create the revamp you want. Which is why I asked how you would go about it or what you think is required. If you don’t want to share your thoughts on that, that’s fine. 👍

    I also don’t believe we will walk the league (never said that). I do feel, once the window is closed, we will have a squad capable of gaining automatic promotion (although I did worry about the flimsiness of our defending in the last ten minutes today).
  • LukerzLukerz
    Nuno didn’t have many options on the bench, but I am not sure starting the second half with Bowen central worked, as him & Solomon were our most threatening players first half. I would have kept Pablo on but maybe he was injured?
  • EXETERHAMMEREXETERHAMMER
    I think we are, if like me, just wanting the best for West Ham.

    A draw away against a relegated team who often bounce back straight away is not a bad result at all.

    It is so annoying though that we didn’t (through silly decision making on and off the field) see it home.
  • SlackerSlacker
    S’pose we should start preparing for League One next season.
  • LukerzLukerz
    On a positive note, Solomon is going to be a great signing if he stays fit. Him & Bowen should rack up a fair tally of goals & assists this season.
  • jay_in_cptjay_in_cpt
    edited August 16
    Lukerz said:

    On a positive note, Solomon is going to be a great signing if he stays fit. Him & Bowen should rack up a fair tally of goals & assists this season.

    Totally agree, for 5 million ( that's what was reported ) he certainly IMO is a great buy...
    Considering he's hardly had time to settle in, for me MOM by a mile....🇮🇱
  • FortuneseekerFortuneseeker
    @Lukerz, Honest question how do you think we will sign the players we need to strengthen our chances of going straight up when it is a common belief we can't really do the business we need to do until we have transferred out the likes of AWB, Todibo, Fullkrug, Diouf, Alvarez & Magassa especially as some of those are better than most of what we currently have IMHO? Take out any you think won't leave.
  • EXETERHAMMEREXETERHAMMER
    If nobody wants them, then they need to play.

    I can see them all being with us other than AWB and possibly Diouf
  • LukerzLukerz
    edited August 16
    I think we will do well to shift all of those players. The club may gamble - sign a couple of players in the hope we then shift the others later - but I imagine there is a need to keep the wage bill under control & only limited funds available. I mean getting relegated is not meant to benefit a club, it’s meant to be bad news. You don’t see your budget double or your wage bill increase. We also want quality - players able to get us into the top two of the Champ - but are going to be limited; our two signings so far are a squad player from Spurs who never played & a midfielder from the SPL. It’s hard to get quality, for our budget, given we still have players here on inflated wages who we can’t seem to shift. I think we have done well to assemble the current starting 11 (substitute Orford for Engels) we have but it is clear to all the bench is weak with the likes of Todibo, AWB, Cornet, Magassa, Alvarez, Füllkrug here but wanting to leave. All of those should have been on our bench today, giving us lots of options. But, until they do leave, you can’t go & sign 5 players to replace them & gamble, because they may not actually go.
  • LukerzLukerz
    I was also a little worried how Flemming dominated Mavropanos
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