Technology in Football, For or Against? And what kind?

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  • MoojorMoojor
    Slaven_Cups_His_Beard said:

    grey_til_I_dye said:

    ASLEF

    tbh, I would have expected the handball to be given.

    Antonio has his back to play, but a ref could very easily have decided he had his arm out to make himself bigger, which would make it deliberate.

    This I agree with......

    And had it been given, no complaints.
    The only reason I would have had complaints would have been the inconsistency of refs. It really is getting to a point where a video ref is very much needed.
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    Moojor

    I do agree re: inconsistency, but in that instance a video ref wouldn't have helped.

    The fact wasn't in doubt, just the interpretation of it.
  • MoojorMoojor
    Grey,

    But isn't that when a video ref is needed even more. When the ref only has one chance to view something, he can't really make an informed decision on the interpretation.

    You have someone who can reply the incident a couple of times and then is able to make a better decision on whether it was intentional or whatever the term is.
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    But a video ref couldn't have given the Caulker handball as the ref and linesman were blindsided and the players and fans never called for it
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    edited February 2016
    Mooor

    I see what you are saying, but for me, I'd always want it to be the 'real' ref's shout when it comes to interpretation.

    In the kind of incident like last night, there can be no way of knowing what Antonio intended, short of asking him, so no obviously 'right' call.
  • MoojorMoojor
    IronHerb said:

    But a video ref couldn't have given the Caulker handball as the ref and linesman were blindsided and the players and fans never called for it

    To me a video ref should be no different from the linesman. They keep an eye on the game and bring something to the refs attention if he missed it or they are there to answer a question if the ref asks.

    The ref still makes the final decision but he gets better information to make the decision.
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    Can't agree with that Moojor. They almost screwed up the Rugby World Cup when the TV ref kept calling the shots, and that's a sport that has had TV refs for quite some time.

    It also takes the control away from the field ref.
  • MoojorMoojor
    But he shouldn't be calling the shots, any more than a linesman currently calls the shots.
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    Herb

    I agree that there are issues with video refs in RU, mainly that too many refs seem to have lost the ability to make what appear to be simple decisions.

    That said, Ireland nearly lost the 6 Nations last year when the ref failed to go up for a look at a decision that shouldn't have been given, and Scotland suffered in the WC QF as well.

    In general, though, I thought the video ref worked well in the RWC, as the TOs became proactive, and looked at incidents that might have been 'suspect' before the ref called for it, so they were ready with the clip, and often with a decision.

    I agree with you re: the Caulker incident - I wouldn't like to see a video ref second-guessing on-pitch decisions.
  • MoojorMoojor
    Grey/Herb

    How would you feel if the linesman tells the ref he has seen an incident that the ref hasn't?
  • Slaven_Cups_His_BeardSlaven_Cups_His_Beard
    edited February 2016
    I think it's just a matter of time before TV refs come in, especially for incidents like that.

    Quick shout in the mic "referee, that's a penalty, unatural arm position, stopping a cross into the penalty area".
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    That's what the linesman should do and I believe does but he hasn't use 18 cameras to do it
  • MoojorMoojor
    IronHerb said:

    That's what the linesman should do and I believe does but he hasn't use 18 cameras to do it

    Why does having access to camera suddenly make it unacceptable? He tells the ref his opinion based on his view and the ref makes the final decision.
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    Because I don't want technology to take over and spoil the game. Goal line is great because goals is what it's all about but anything else just interferes.
    Take last night. The corner for Villa is handled but not seen/given. 14 seconds later we score and the ref awards the goal. Then he gets the penalty call. There would be riots.
  • SuzanneClaretSuzanneClaret
    I would indeed riot ;biggrin
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    Moojor

    For me, it takes away from the pitch officials.

    I'm happier if they have technology to use if they ask for it, not for it to be used to second guess them.
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    I knew you would Suze ;lol
  • Expat_HammerExpat_Hammer
    SuzanneClaret said:

    I would indeed riot ;biggrin

    So distant from the sweet and demure Suzanne that Wombat and I found in the Boleyn Arms ;lol

  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    Face down in a pint of vodka
  • TwistandShoutTwistandShout
    ;champagne ;bowdown
  • SuzanneClaretSuzanneClaret
    ;lol ;whistle
  • NEoldironNEoldiron
    Herb
    You said:
    "The corner for Villa is handled but not seen/given. 14 seconds later we score and the ref awards the goal. Then he gets the penalty call. There would be riots."
    I've watched the highlights and can't see who handled, who was it? ;hmm
  • MoojorMoojor
    IronHerb said:

    Because I don't want technology to take over and spoil the game. Goal line is great because goals is what it's all about but anything else just interferes.
    Take last night. The corner for Villa is handled but not seen/given. 14 seconds later we score and the ref awards the goal. Then he gets the penalty call. There would be riots.

    But that would be the right call. Getting away with cheating because you don't get seen doesn't suddenly make it acceptable.
    But again no difference than if the linesman sees it and let's the ref know. Unless I'm missing the point and linesman are not allowed to let the ref know if they see a handball or something.
    Also Grey to me second guessing would be someone over ruling the ref and so long as the refs call is final that wouldn't happen. So long as a video linesman has the same power as a pitch side linesman it doesn't change anything. Except they would buzz the ref instead of raising their flag.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    NEold - it's a hypothetical situation to illustrate when/how Herb things technology shouldn't be used.

    I think.

    ;puzzled
  • NEoldironNEoldiron
    MrsGrey
    Reading Herb's post again I see that he has used the subjunctive (implied), more fool me for not picking it up ;wink
  • AKAHammer63AKAHammer63
    Against ;ok
  • claretandblueskyclaretandbluesky
    I would be in favour of a 5th Official who resides inside with the tv and access to replay. I would like it to be two way communication in that the referee could ask the 5th official for assistance with regard big issues concerning hand balls, offsides, etc leading to goals. I would also like the 5th official to be able to alert the ref to anything he has seen with regard violent behaviour etc.

    I would not want the 5th official to interrupt the referee without being asked for assistance on anything but goal producing issues. I would like to see them as a linesman whose flag is a beeping in the ref's ear.

    I would make two things clear to the teams and supporters from the outset. That this is being used to assist the referee and not to replace him, that it should not be expected to produce perfect decisions each time as many are not clear cut.

    It should be expected at present that referees will get a percentage of decisions wrong and pro ref's would likely get a lot less than you or I would, I would hope that through this technology that we could reduce poor decisions to perhaps 5% instead of 15%.

    I would also allow all disciplinary decisions to be re-visited regardless of 'if the ref already saw it' as this makes no sense. This will clean the game up a lot as on another day the Villa player would have got away with what he did last night.
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    NEoldiron said:

    MrsGrey
    Reading Herb's post again I see that he has used the subjunctive (implied), more fool me for not picking it up ;wink

    I've never knowingly used one of them in my life, honest guv. ;biggrin
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    edited February 2016




    Here's my video technology of the Caulker Handball - you decide ;biggrin
  • AKAHammer63AKAHammer63
    Leave as is goal line yes as its indisputable look at EUFA linesman by goal useless 3rd ref how will that work there is no consistency week to week if Moss yesterday had his no penalty over turned who says 3rd ref is right take H Webb on BT says its hard analysed Lpool handball Sat to Antonio and says similar then goes on to say Lpool no pen yesterday was so how does that work also it isnt a robotic game controversy is part of it thats what we talk about day in day out we still talk about WC 66 leave as is for goodness sake ;ok
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