Arsenal (H) 5:30pm Saturday 30 November live on Sky

chicagohammer

Not sure you can take much away from that second half, strongly feel that Arsenal took it easy on us and it was more of a friendly type of performance than a real contest.

The first 35 mins remain the problem for me, I did not expect us to win but we were nowhere near them and deserved to find ourselves four down which says it all really.

Overall another bad day at the office,

Kudus is back and I think that Soler has done enough to keep his spot so hopefully all is not lost

Ho hum

claretandbluesky

That was a horrible game of football and hard to judge our performance really as too many decisive moments which possibly distorted it. I don't doubt Arsenal were the better team and would have won anyhow, but hard to measure the performance.

I am not sure the first goal should have stood as it looked like Paquetta was targeted and fouled. The Arsenal guy moves towards him from behind and has no interest in the ball.

Paquettas penalty is just stupid, he is just sticking a foot out in the penalty area and should know better.

The next penalty could be given but I don't think VAR would have had the ref not done so and I don't think the ref actually saw what happened as he took so long. He once again reffed the reaction of the Arsenal players.

We did still look better in moments and I am hoping for two big performances in our next two much more winnable games.

thornburyiron

There is no doubt Arsenal were the better team and were by a country mile. That’s the 4th defeat in our 7 home games and I’m sure there are more to come. We’ve conceded an average of 2 goals per game for the whole of 2024 and don’t seem like changing that any time soon even after 2 successive clean sheets before tonight.
Everything Arsenal do they do in game after game especially corners but we seemed to have been taken by surprise.

buffybegood

buffybegood said:

I guess the aim now is to keep it below last season's 0-6.

Result 😂🤣😂

Slacker

For about fifteen minutes there I dared to dream.

alderz

Seems like a good night for me to have been having my last evening of holiday

Lukerz

thornburyiron said:

There is no doubt Arsenal were the better team and were by a country mile. That’s the 4th defeat in our 7 home games and I’m sure there are more to come. We’ve conceded an average of 2 goals per game for the whole of 2024 and don’t seem like changing that any time soon even after 2 successive clean sheets before tonight.
Everything Arsenal do they do in game after game especially corners but we seemed to have been taken by surprise.

I don’t think there are many more to come.

What’s quite clear this season is all our defeats have been against sides either in the ‘traditional’ top 6 or are currently in the top 9:

West Ham 1-2 Villa (9th)
West Ham 1-3 Man City (4th)
West Ham 0-3 Chelsea (5th)
Liverpool (1st) 5-1 West Ham (cup)
Spurs (8th) 4-1 West Ham
Forest (6th) 3-0 West Ham
West Ham 2-5 Arsenal (2nd)

The rest of the games is where we have taken points:

Palace 0-2 West Ham
West Ham 1-0 Bournemouth (cup)
Fulham 1-1 West Ham
Brentford 1-1 West Ham
West Ham 4-1 Ipswich
West Ham 2-1 Man Utd
West Ham 0-0 Everton
Newcastle 0-2 West Ham

That’s four goals conceded in 8 games (4 clean sheets) against sides outside the traditional top 6. 15 points from 7 league games.

I genuinely am not concerned. We are four points better off from the same games last season, we are unbeaten against sides in the bottom half/lower reaches of the top half & we now have a more ‘winnable’ run of games & Kudus is back.

Yes I would have rather we not had so many games where we let in 3-5 goals. But it’s clear that our new ‘open’ style of football is exploited against the best sides but gets results against the lesser teams.

JL will be judged on this Xmas period. It will either make or break him.

We have to be careful not to take what we are seeing out of context because of a few batterings - we basically lose to good teams & get results against the rest. Performances have been inconsistent but we are only 13 games in.

jay_in_cpt

I don't think it's personally a true reflection to compare last season results for use as a comparison, as if you include how much money we spent pre-season, there IMO should have been a higher increase regardless of the new manager effect.....

Still have to say VERY UNCONVINCED about J Lo, time will tell, but I don't see him here with us beyond this season, at most....

And our defence, 3 out of 4 new players, most of the time it looks exactly like that, like they've never played as defenders before, for many games, even the one or 2 we won luckily in the beginning ( Palace/ Man U ) .....

All IMO of course, we all see and think differently, fair do's....

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

jay_in_cpt said:

I don't think it's personally a true reflection to compare last season results for use as a comparison, as if you include how much money we spent pre-season, there IMO should have been a higher increase regardless of the new manager effect.....

But that's not always the case, money doesn't always guarantee results, especially short term... and it's not like the teams we've faced haven't also tried to improve themselves like we have

Liverpool didn't sign anyone and they're flying

Chelsea spent a record number and 2 years later they seem to have finally found some form

No guarantees in football... especially when the money we spent was a necessity given years of mismanagement for the squad size/depth/age/contracts that required a big turnaround in the squad

Pengeman

Our midfield doesn#t function and that was shown-up again yesterday. It doesn't shield defence and splutters in attack. It lacks pace and doesn't read the game. It couldn't cope with Arsenal's midfield or their movement. Their attackers had loads of space and no one closed them down. Too many are new to EPL. JWP has been loaned out. Not sure if anyone can step up from U-21s. We got tonked by Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea, City and Arsenal, and Lopetegui has no tactical or personnel answers. I still think he ought to go.

jay_in_cpt

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years said:

jay_in_cpt said:

I don't think it's personally a true reflection to compare last season results for use as a comparison, as if you include how much money we spent pre-season, there IMO should have been a higher increase regardless of the new manager effect.....

But that's not always the case, money doesn't always guarantee results, especially short term... and it's not like the teams we've faced haven't also tried to improve themselves like we have

Liverpool didn't sign anyone and they're flying

Chelsea spent a record number and 2 years later they seem to have finally found some form

No guarantees in football... especially when the money we spent was a necessity given years of mismanagement for the squad size/depth/age/contracts that required a big turnaround in the squad

Liverpool didn't need to spend, Chelsea with the 'right' manager are doing very well, Liverpool replaced one of the best, no looking back at the moment for them....No, of course money doesn't guarantee success, I didn't actually say that, just made the point we spent a LOT, compared to most and have seen nothing to warrant that ( performance wise )......

What I did say is that to compare last season is somewhat distorted IMO, and the manager who is currently our manager is simply not doing well enough IMO with what he has available to him...
We have the 2nd oldest squad after spending fortunes, something is wrong there...IMO

Lukerz

My comparison is simply to highlight it’s not as ‘Armageddon’ as some fans suggest (not you, Jay).

We finished 9th last season; we’re 4 points up on the same games.

If you said now we’d finish 9th this season, I’d say that was fairly respectable.

ASLEFshrugged

Better than losing 6-0...

claretandbluesky

I have become a little more optimistic over these last two matches, even the Arsenal one as the scoreline was distorted by two silly penalties. We now look like the players are speaking the same language a little more and the speed at which players make themselves available has increased and this is a big part of any good side. As soon as a player has the ball he needs as many outlets for it as possible by players finding space, dropping off or making runs, we have definitely done this better in these last two matches. I think the matches between now and the new year will provide a little optimism for the second half of the season, I hope so at least.

alderz

😮

A reasonable take?! In 2024?!

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

jay_in_cpt said:

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years said:

jay_in_cpt said:

I don't think it's personally a true reflection to compare last season results for use as a comparison, as if you include how much money we spent pre-season, there IMO should have been a higher increase regardless of the new manager effect.....

But that's not always the case, money doesn't always guarantee results, especially short term... and it's not like the teams we've faced haven't also tried to improve themselves like we have

Liverpool didn't sign anyone and they're flying

Chelsea spent a record number and 2 years later they seem to have finally found some form

No guarantees in football... especially when the money we spent was a necessity given years of mismanagement for the squad size/depth/age/contracts that required a big turnaround in the squad

Liverpool didn't need to spend, Chelsea with the 'right' manager are doing very well, Liverpool replaced one of the best, no looking back at the moment for them....No, of course money doesn't guarantee success, I didn't actually say that, just made the point we spent a LOT, compared to most and have seen nothing to warrant that ( performance wise )......

What I did say is that to compare last season is somewhat distorted IMO, and the manager who is currently our manager is simply not doing well enough IMO with what he has available to him...
We have the 2nd oldest squad after spending fortunes, something is wrong there...IMO

So you agree caveats exist and there isn't scenarios where a squad overhaul doesn't necessarily bear results immediately

You may not see anything, but as Lukerz says we have actually made more points from the same fixtures and how we are trending above 1 point per game and aren't in danger of the bottom 3.... so maybe we aren't THAT bad

The fact we have 2nd oldest squad depsite the guys we bought this summer, except Fullkrug, are relatively younger shows the huge task Lopetegui had

jay_in_cpt

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years said:

jay_in_cpt said:

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years said:

jay_in_cpt said:

I don't think it's personally a true reflection to compare last season results for use as a comparison, as if you include how much money we spent pre-season, there IMO should have been a higher increase regardless of the new manager effect.....

But that's not always the case, money doesn't always guarantee results, especially short term... and it's not like the teams we've faced haven't also tried to improve themselves like we have

Liverpool didn't sign anyone and they're flying

Chelsea spent a record number and 2 years later they seem to have finally found some form

No guarantees in football... especially when the money we spent was a necessity given years of mismanagement for the squad size/depth/age/contracts that required a big turnaround in the squad

Liverpool didn't need to spend, Chelsea with the 'right' manager are doing very well, Liverpool replaced one of the best, no looking back at the moment for them....No, of course money doesn't guarantee success, I didn't actually say that, just made the point we spent a LOT, compared to most and have seen nothing to warrant that ( performance wise )......

What I did say is that to compare last season is somewhat distorted IMO, and the manager who is currently our manager is simply not doing well enough IMO with what he has available to him...
We have the 2nd oldest squad after spending fortunes, something is wrong there...IMO

So you agree caveats exist and there isn't scenarios where a squad overhaul doesn't necessarily bear results immediately

You may not see anything, but as Lukerz says we have actually made more points from the same fixtures and how we are trending above 1 point per game and aren't in danger of the bottom 3.... so maybe we aren't THAT bad

The fact we have 2nd oldest squad depsite the guys we bought this summer, except Fullkrug, are relatively younger shows the huge task Lopetegui had

Valid points..Still, If I was a betting man, J Lo will NOT be a success at WHUFC, it's nothing personal, just a hunch I have about him, let's hope I'm way of the mark...

IronHerb

Thing is jay 80-85% of managers aren’t successful. I guess it depends what successful means, different things to different people.

MIAHammer

1/3 of the season gone and we are just 4 pts behind Man Utd, Newcastle, Aston Villa, Bournemouth and Fulham and 7 points behind 6th place. 3 of our next 5 games are against teams below us.
As some have already said no need to panic as yet.
Speaking for myself, I always thought this year would be a rebuilding season with all the outgoing and incoming. I wasn’t expecting us to be tearing up the league. Did i wish us to be doing better? Of course i did but I am by no means viewing this season so far as disastrous.
Come January I may feel different but for now I am not worried about relegation.

IronHerb

Just the usual suspects MIA.

jay_in_cpt

Sad thing is, that there are many, not saying on here, but there are many that think the same as I do, wrong manager in place......Let's see....

claretandbluesky

I agree with you jay and have said he wasn't the direction I would have gone from the beginning, it was too Pellegrini for me. The difference is some of the people you mention (not on here) want to take the first opportunity to prove themselves right and get rid after a poor start. I think most would take a more measured approach and recognise he got the job after a process conducted by people who hopefully know what they are doing, that he has a reasonable if not great CV and so deserves every support to help him succeed. The club have done this by supplying funds, now he needs time and support. This said I recognise it gets difficult if our league status comes under threat, but at this point we are not in that position.

At this precise point I think we support him and the team as loudly as we can to do our bit.

jay_in_cpt

claretandbluesky said:

I agree with you jay and have said he wasn't the direction I would have gone from the beginning, it was too Pellegrini for me. The difference is some of the people you mention (not on here) want to take the first opportunity to prove themselves right and get rid after a poor start. I think most would take a more measured approach and recognise he got the job after a process conducted by people who hopefully know what they are doing, that he has a reasonable if not great CV and so deserves every support to help him succeed. The club have done this by supplying funds, now he needs time and support. This said I recognise it gets difficult if our league status comes under threat, but at this point we are not in that position.

At this precise point I think we support him and the team as loudly as we can to do our bit.

Claret, well said....
He has my full backing, like all true fans I'm sure....
But, like we seem to agree on, he's not perhaps the right man for the job....IMO
My brother, who goes to many games & who's far more "conservative" than me, actually agrees with me, which was a shock....
I guess time will tell, like I've always said, it's not a 'witch-hunt' or a personal thing, just a gut feeling...but I'd really like he proves me wrong, some what like Moyes did....

claretandbluesky

That's the point a real fan wants to be proved wrong, as I also was with Moyes, whereas some would rather prove themselves right than give the guy a chance.

Slacker

Modern football is poisoned by social media imo.
The amount of managers who are getting the elbow after a handful of games is just crackers.
I know the clubs are under incredible financial pressure ( particularly in the Premier League) to make sure that they’re safe but surely it’s better to hold your nerve and support the man you employed. It works, chopping and changing doesn’t, just look t Man United post Ferguson, for a club of their size they are a mess.

Ravel49

I guess you haven’t heard that the quadruple is on under Ruben ‘The second special one’ Amorim‼️