Moyes In or Moyes Out

ASLEFshrugged

We got £18m for Rio

Arry spent £7m on Rigobert Song, Titi Camara, Ragnvald Soma, Christian Dailly and Svetoslav Todorov

Er...

PrestonHammer

Whoooooooo???

chicagohammer

Gary Breen, - that caused a shiver to go down my spine

Bazshuayi

alderz said:

Bazshuayi said:

We also had the fabulous Titi Camara (who from memory, so dont quote me, was a replacement defender with the Rio Ferdinand money)

Close. He was a striker we bought with the Rio money. I think that the defender we bought in was Rigobert Song, but if memory serves we signed a handful of not very good players with that money.

Yes of course. The trauma faded my memory (or the desire to forget!)

steve

Moyes out 4-0 just not good enough

chicagohammer

To be fair, assuming we do stay up, I do not care how comfortable our final position is, I have seen enough this season and remain hopeful that we have a new coach for next season

alderz

I personally would like Moyes to be here next season. I think we’ll stay up, I think the players are properly working for him, and I think we’ll have a miles better season next year.

claretandbluesky

I think it's his job to fight for in as much as he has enough games to go to pass this off as new players settling in and injuries should he now turn it around, but he has not shown a great deal of dealing with any of these things to date and we really shouldn't be where we are. He has been supported and has not produced.

In my view if he can now get us clear of relegation without a nail biting final few matches and go close or win the conference he should keep the job and get the benefit of the doubt, should relegation go to the wire and we fall out of the conference without any real challenge for it then it's hard to feel that he is our future.

alderz

Also, just for what it’s worth, since he came back as manager, his win record is 45%, which is better than any permanent manager we’ve ever had. And even if you include his first spell, his win record is still 42.7%, which would be the second best in our history.

I get it that people are fed up with this season, and I get it that people don’t love his tactics. But I personally think I used to be really proud of the longevity of our managers, and I would like us to stick with him if he keeps us up.

buffybegood

alderz said:

Also, just for what it’s worth, since he came back as manager, his win record is 45%, which is better than any permanent manager we’ve ever had. And even if you include his first spell, his win record is still 42.7%, which would be the second best in our history.

I get it that people are fed up with this season, and I get it that people don’t love his tactics. But I personally think I used to be really proud of the longevity of our managers, and I would like us to stick with him if he keeps us up.

Just out of interest, given we've had a lot of relatively easy European fixtures in the last 2 seasons, how does his top flight League record for us stand up against that of our other managers? I say top flight, as SA's, amongst others, league record was boosted by a season in the 2nd tier.

alderz

buffybegood said:

alderz said:

Also, just for what it’s worth, since he came back as manager, his win record is 45%, which is better than any permanent manager we’ve ever had. And even if you include his first spell, his win record is still 42.7%, which would be the second best in our history.

I get it that people are fed up with this season, and I get it that people don’t love his tactics. But I personally think I used to be really proud of the longevity of our managers, and I would like us to stick with him if he keeps us up.

Just out of interest, given we've had a lot of relatively easy European fixtures in the last 2 seasons, how does his top flight League record for us stand up against that of our other managers? I say top flight, as SA's, amongst others, league record was boosted by a season in the 2nd tier.

That’s not something I have to hand. But I’ll add that Billy Bonds has our best win ratio outside of Moyes, and he had a year in the Championship.

buffybegood

alderz said:

buffybegood said:

alderz said:

Also, just for what it’s worth, since he came back as manager, his win record is 45%, which is better than any permanent manager we’ve ever had. And even if you include his first spell, his win record is still 42.7%, which would be the second best in our history.

I get it that people are fed up with this season, and I get it that people don’t love his tactics. But I personally think I used to be really proud of the longevity of our managers, and I would like us to stick with him if he keeps us up.

Just out of interest, given we've had a lot of relatively easy European fixtures in the last 2 seasons, how does his top flight League record for us stand up against that of our other managers? I say top flight, as SA's, amongst others, league record was boosted by a season in the 2nd tier.

That’s not something I have to hand. But I’ll add that Billy Bonds has our best win ratio outside of Moyes, and he had a year in the Championship.

That sort of thing can obviously seriously distort a win ratio though can't it; it's like comparing tomatoes and suspension bridges.

alderz

Nowhere seems to have this easily to hand, but Transfermarkt has individual seasonal records for domestic leagues, so I've had to add each season together. It only goes back far enough to see Redknapp's record, so I've had to also go back through my spreadsheet of results so I can also get Billy Bonds and John Lyall's records. I don't have all of Ron Greenwood's data, and I have non of Ted Fenton, Charlie Paynter or Syd King's.

I trust Transfermarkt's data more than my own, as everything I have has been mashed together from multiple sources, and (for the most part) manually entered into one place, so there are possible errors in my own stuff.

BUT

I make Moyes' second spell to be (win ratio wise) our best ever, with 38.7%. Curbishley is second (37.1%) and Moyes' total run with us is 3rd. Throw in the fact that only Lyall and Redknapp have managed more top flight games for us in that time, and I'd say he's been pretty successful.



Also, and I hope this doesn't come across like too big of a moan, but if I am capable of looking stuff up on Transfermarkt, so is everyone else. so if you think that what I've posted is 'seriously distorted' you can always just try to find the answers yourself.

Fortuneseeker

Thanks for taking the time to research this but whilst I admit we have had two good seasons under David Moyes didn't Leicester City have the highest number of wins under Ranieri when winning the title but he was gone the next season.
Only our third win in the past thirteen league matches isn't going to bring the jury back in yet. We have been asking to see David Moyes name a team which lets the handbrake off & he has finally done it which I am pleased to see. We have recently beaten two of the teams currently with the worst away records this season so shouldn't that be taken into consideration? Hopefully he will play with the same philosophy and will win the next few matches to go onto survive. As for who is in charge next season well that is for the summer.

buffybegood

alderz, really sorry, my comment wasn't in any way intended as a dig, merely a simple observation that if you have a season or two of playing weaker opposition then, all other things being as equal as they can be, you should have a better win ratio than if you were playing stronger teams every match.

alderz

No worries buffy. I just read what I said back and it definitely reads more annoyed than I actually was!

alderz

Fortuneseeker said:

Thanks for taking the time to research this but whilst I admit we have had two good seasons under David Moyes didn't Leicester City have the highest number of wins under Ranieri when winning the title but he was gone the next season.

Does that mean our benchmark should be Leicester?

Arsenal look like they’re on course to win the league (or at least have a really good go at it), but it was only 18 months ago or probably less that the fans wanted the manager out. They kept him after finishing 8th. Could that not be our benchmark?

I think you can find examples of it working out and not working out for clubs who stick and for those who twist, tbh.

chicagohammer

For me I think that DM has had his day, overall he has a record to be pretty proud of and has nothing to prove to anyone. Arteta is annoying and easily has the most punchable face in Christendom but he is also the poster child of what a fresh face can bring.

Early doors he struggled and indeed his head was on the chop, but to be fair, look what he has done since, the players and everyone associated with the club are firmly behind him.

For too many of our games, I have not seen that DM is willing to change his basic formula, even when it seems that we do not have the correct playing staff to truly make the formula work.

Our conservative set up is probably the reason our goal difference is better than most, but we have simply struggled to look like scoring - I get that today is probably not the day to say that 😃

I strongly believe that DM should see the season out as swapping him out now makes no sense whatsoever but I think it is time to have a fresh face who with a bit of luck, can have an extended run in the chair

nychammer66

alderz said:

Nowhere seems to have this easily to hand, but Transfermarkt has individual seasonal records for domestic leagues, so I've had to add each season together. It only goes back far enough to see Redknapp's record, so I've had to also go back through my spreadsheet of results so I can also get Billy Bonds and John Lyall's records. I don't have all of Ron Greenwood's data, and I have non of Ted Fenton, Charlie Paynter or Syd King's.

I trust Transfermarkt's data more than my own, as everything I have has been mashed together from multiple sources, and (for the most part) manually entered into one place, so there are possible errors in my own stuff.

BUT

I make Moyes' second spell to be (win ratio wise) our best ever, with 38.7%. Curbishley is second (37.1%) and Moyes' total run with us is 3rd. Throw in the fact that only Lyall and Redknapp have managed more top flight games for us in that time, and I'd say he's been pretty successful.



Also, and I hope this doesn't come across like too big of a moan, but if I am capable of looking stuff up on Transfermarkt, so is everyone else. so if you think that what I've posted is 'seriously distorted' you can always just try to find the answers yourself.

Where is Greenwood?

buffybegood

nychammer66 said:

Where is Greenwood?

The answer is in the post you quoted:

alderz said:

I don't have all of Ron Greenwood's data, and I have non of Ted Fenton, Charlie Paynter or Syd King's.

Slacker

Chicago, a very reasoned and decent appraisal. So different from the screaming muppets elsewhere.
I can’t say that I agree with you but you make some good points.

Slacker

I’m coming round to a view that Moyes should stay ( obvs) until the end of this season and keep us up and then for the last year of his contract to give him a general manager role or summink. Then look at bringing in a team manager of sorts( I haven’t got a clue who tbh) to work with him.
IF we go down I’d stay with him and back him to bring us straight back.
I’d hate to see him hounded out after all he’s done for my club.

Slacker

Slacker said:

Slacker said:

In fact in New Manager Rumour Bingo I bags Carrick.

BINGO!BINGO!


You heard it here first.

Latest Carrick rumour is that cos Boro lost yesterday he’s now a rubbish manager so we don’t want him.

PrestonHammer

He's wearing a crossed hammers on his lapel hahaha

IronHerb

That’s photoshopped.

PrestonHammer

If that's the case, they photo shopped the tie as well.

Bazshuayi

Whether we stay up or not, the problem for me has always been his lack of versatility and mindset.

With the Arsenal benchmark in mind from earlier comment, I think Arteta survived because their board believed in what he was trying to implement. Whereas everyone knows (or they should do now) Moyes way of setting his teams up

Slacker

I don’t think we’ll go down but IF we do I can’t think of a better manager with that amount of experience to get us straight back up.
But who knows , football is a bit crackers sometimes.

thornburyiron

Ron Greenwood’s win rate with us was 35.87%. John Lyall’s with us was 40%

buffybegood

thornburyiron said:

Ron Greenwood’s win rate with us was 35.87%. John Lyall’s with us was 40%

I'm sure alderz could have provided those figures, I asked, for a fairer comparison, for win rates in the top flight league only (so excluding figures in the second tier, and all cup or European games which is relevant for Moyes given the poor quality of opposition for numerous games in the group stages of both the Europa Cup last season and the ECL this season). Playing a season in the second tier where you win a lot of games and win promotion is going to seriously boost your win ratio compared to a manager who only managed in the top flight.