The "I know its only February and Mrs Grey is going to scream "Noooooo" but..." transfer thread

ASLEFshrugged

Fortuneseeker said:

I understand Barry Fry advised G & S about Toney when he was @ Peterborough but they didn’t make a move for him. Is he likely to go to one of the current top 5 or Manchester United?

Toney was only at Peterborough for two seasons, 2018/19 and 2019/20. I don't think Pellegrini would have signed a striker from League One who had failed to make the grade at Newcastle.

Lukerz

I also find that logic crazy. We’ve just had two seasons of competing in the top 6 for Champions League football, played on the European stage, allowed two young players to get in & around the England squad, have a 65,000 seater stadium…

We will be able to pay more. If we made an acceptable bid for Toney in the summer there is no way he doesn’t sit down with Moyes & hear what he has to say, at least.

OldCastleSwift

If it comes down to money and stadium, it brings in almost every other established PL club. We wouldn't have a financial advantage over most of them.

Bottom line is, what has set us apart from the likes of Villa, Wolves and Leicester is European competition. Without that, and trying to be objective, I don't necessarily see the pull of West Ham ahead of any other top ten club, and none of them would represent a huge step up for Toney, IMO.

Yeoldhammer

Lukerz said:

I also find that logic crazy. We’ve just had two seasons of competing in the top 6 for Champions League football, played on the European stage, allowed two young players to get in & around the England squad, have a 65,000 seater stadium…

We will be able to pay more. If we made an acceptable bid for Toney in the summer there is no way he doesn’t sit down with Moyes & hear what he has to say, at least.

Brentford are not going to sell him for anything less than 50m and we aren't spending 50m on Toney if we did im filing that under Haller mistake, personally dont think he is the player we need.

and are we really going to drop 50m on one player when we are about to lose 5 or 6 players out of contract that need replacing in an already small squad.

ASLEFshrugged

Yeoldhammer said:

and are we really going to drop 50m on one player when we are about to lose 5 or 6 players out of contract that need replacing in an already small squad.

6 players out of contract in the summer

Last I heard we were going to offer Ogbonna and Fabianski new contracts

Noble is retiring, Martin doesn't play

Yarmolenko and Fredericks are the other two

OldCastleSwift

As things we also lose Kral and Areola from our first team squad.

Fredericks can be replaced by Ashby in the squad as Johnson and Coufal will probably be first choices.

Yarmolenko, Kral, Noble and Areola, however, will need replacing in the squad.

Throw in a left back, a Diop replacement and at least one striker, you're looking at seven.

Fortuneseeker

I think most, if not all of us, believe the squad is too small? So the numbers being quoted need to factor in an increase in the size of the squad.

alderz

The goal is usually 2 players per position, so before you get into upgrades and things (Masuaku and Diop could definitely do with being replaced) you have this:

GK: Fabianski / Randolph
DR: Johnson / Coufal
DC: Dawson / Diop
DC: Zouma / Ogbonna
DL: Cresswell / Masuaku
MC: Soucek
MC: Rice
FW: Bowen
FW: Lanzini / Vlasic
FW: Fornals / Benrahma
ST: Antonio

So, before you even think about upgrades it’s 2 CMs, 1 forward, 1 striker.

EDIT: I’ve added Vlasic now

ASLEFshrugged

You forgot Vlasic, alderz (unless you think he's leaving in the summer)

Although you did remember Randolph who I suspect most of us had forgotten was still on our books

OldCastleSwift

You've forgotten Vlasic, alderz. Forgivable, given his impact, but he may yet come good I suppose.

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

You forgot Vlasic, Alderz.

Fortuneseeker

@alderz, Do you see that at seven new players needed then or even 8 as there are rumours Randolph wanted to leave in the last window & Ogbonna wants to go back to Italy?

alderz

Fortuneseeker said:

@alderz, Do you see that at seven new players needed then or even 8 as there are rumours Randolph wanted to leave in the last window & Ogbonna wants to go back to Italy?

Randolph is under contract, so we don’t know what will be happening with him. I’ve not seen those Ogbonna rumours, but have seen that we were planning to extend his deal, so I’m assuming he’ll stay for now.

buffybegood

alderz said:

The goal is usually 2 players per position, so before you get into upgrades and things (Masuaku and Diop could definitely do with being replaced) you have this:

GK: Fabianski / Randolph
DR: Johnson / Coufal
DC: Dawson / Diop
DC: Zouma / Ogbonna
DL: Cresswell / Masuaku
MC: Soucek
MC: Rice
FW: Bowen
FW: Lanzini / Vlasic
FW: Fornals / Benrahma
ST: Antonio

So, before you even think about upgrades it’s 2 CMs, 1 forward, 1 striker.

EDIT: I’ve added Vlasic now

Add to those 4 the fact that Masuaku and Diop really aren't good enough, and that Moyes thinks we need another keeper or we wouldn't have loaned Areola this year, and we're at 7. That's without 3 more players (or 2 if we keep Randolph as a 3rd choice keeper, I think he's got one more year left on his contract) that most other clubs utilise in their 25 man squad. So, if we're to compete on reasonably even terms we should be recruiting at least 9, yes 9, players to our squad, whilst only getting rid of the 2 that obviously aren't good enough (without even getting into whether Vlasic, or even Benrahma are good enough).

Whilst I agree that recruiting the wrong players is counterproductive, to be in a position where we need 9 new players , whilst only really trying to upgrade 2 of those (as opposed to filling vacant positions in the squad) shows how truly negligant we've been in recent transfer windows. The cynic in me kinda thinks that G&S are only trying to get us across the line to a penalty-free sale whilst not really caring what state we'll be left in afterwards.

IronHerb

OldCastleSwift said:

IronHerb said:

Funny how we never managed to buy anyone when we weren't in Europe. 🤔

No-one is saying we wont sign anyone, are they? We're talking specifically about Toney. West Ham playing in Europe would presumably make him more open to the move. If we're not, he may as well stay where he is.

The reality is, being in European competition influences the calibre of players a club can sign. I'm not convinced Zouma would have signed had we not been in the EL this season.

Didn’t we sign Bowen, Soucek and Coufal when not in Europe?

OldCastleSwift

IronHerb said:

OldCastleSwift said:

IronHerb said:

Funny how we never managed to buy anyone when we weren't in Europe. 🤔

No-one is saying we wont sign anyone, are they? We're talking specifically about Toney. West Ham playing in Europe would presumably make him more open to the move. If we're not, he may as well stay where he is.

The reality is, being in European competition influences the calibre of players a club can sign. I'm not convinced Zouma would have signed had we not been in the EL this season.

Didn’t we sign Bowen, Soucek and Coufal when not in Europe?

Yes. But Hull to West Ham is a big step up. The Czech League to the PL is a big step up. We didn't need Europe to attract those particular players, but if we want to attract better players than them, to make us a better team, we'll need to offer more than just PL football, IMO.

IronHerb

But we got them anyway. West Ham is a big step up from Brentford. You don't need to sign superstars to have a good team / squad.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

There is no way Toney wouldn't see us as a massive step up

OldCastleSwift

My point re Toney is that although you may consider West Ham a big step up from Brentford, he may not if we're not in Europe. He may just see us as another London club.

To get him ahead of, say, Newcastle or Villa, we might need the pull of Europe. And that could apply to most top players that we're interested.

I agree that you don't need superstars to have a good team, but to have a great team capable of regularly challenging at the top end of the table, you probably do.

PrestonHammer

We're not signing 9 players. That will take about 4 windows hahaha

Fortuneseeker

Preston, I don’t think we can wait for four windows. ☹️

OutcastLondoner

Bringing in loads of new players never works. You can’t settle that many in at once. We need a few to fix core problems. For the same reason I don’t think we can get rid of a player like Benrahma in the summer quite yet (though maybe if Lingard comes we can, as he’s used to the club). We need a left back, a striker and something different in midfield for cover and variety, especially with Kral off and Noble leaving.

Then hopefully Lingard on a free as the pacy attacker I think we really need. If we get Europe maybe we can pinch Kamara on a free as well. Seko Fofana could be a quality signing as well, they dynamic midfielder I think we need and has a few goals in Ligue 1 this year.

Bazshuayi

Lingard highly unlikely to come here if we aren't in Europe (IMO). There will be plenty of clubs interested in him, home and abroad. A few months ago nobody would've looked twice at Spurs or Newcastle but now...

OutcastLondoner

You're probably right Baz but my hope is he'd value the freedom he was given here. He's been at a club in Europe and not been enough for their ambitions. He'll only be a stop gap at Newcastle until they're able to get truly big names, just like many of the early signings at Chelsea or Man City. Spurs have quite a few attacking players already competing for those places.

buffybegood

OutcastLondoner said:

Bringing in loads of new players never works. You can’t settle that many in at once.

True, but if we hadn't done such shambolic business over the last few windows, we wouldn't be in this position. In 3 windows we've added 2 permanent new players (and made a couple of loans permanent), one of whom (Vlasic) is barely getting any game time. 2 additional permanent signings in each of those windows and we'd only need 3 players in the summer.

Yet we dilly and dally and struggle to get any signings across the line, and half the time they're just loans that don't necessarily go anywhere, and we still end up needing to recruit a replacement the following season.

Now, I'm not against the odd loan with an option to buy, but for years now we've used loans just to try and get by in the short term, meaning we are always playing catch up, and never seem to build any depth to the squad. How on earth can we be in a situation where, if we're only looking to upgrade Masuaku and Diop who desperately need improving on, we need to sign 9 players just to have a full squad?

Bazshuayi

OutcastLondoner said:

You're probably right Baz but my hope is he'd value the freedom he was given here. He's been at a club in Europe and not been enough for their ambitions. He'll only be a stop gap at Newcastle until they're able to get truly big names, just like many of the early signings at Chelsea or Man City. Spurs have quite a few attacking players already competing for those places.

I agree he'd be on the bench (again) plenty of the time at Spurs and a short term stepping stone for Newcastle. However, does he know that? His decision making in recent history hardly covers itself in glory

EXETERHAMMER

We haven't mentioned other players that may leave. Rice, Soucek and Bowen will be sought after. We may well need 12 new players!

alderz

EXETERHAMMER said:

We haven't mentioned other players that may leave. Rice, Soucek and Bowen will be sought after. We may well need 12 new players!

Which is exactly why players won’t be leaving. Everyone you’ve mentioned is under contract. If you sell Rice for £120m or so, and then try to sign 6+ players, you will be absolutely rinsed for everyone.

alderz

Seen on Instagram that Ex has said we’re after Lingard, Tarkowski and Brereton-Diaz on free’s in the summer.

Bazshuayi

We could always buy Brentford... We'll get Toney, Raya, Henry, Pinnock and Eriksen briefly plus their transfer scouting system