Transfer Deadline Day: It's weird because it's October

IronHerb

I sometimes have that affect barracks. 😗

PS Are you sure you didn't throw its in a rage?

Fortuneseeker

Difficult to assess how good the window was. We sold Diangana to raise funds to put towards the priority signing of a Centre Half otherwise why were all the reports of offers being made if that wasn't what we wanted to achieve? We have come out of all this with a better RB, a stop gap CH & now have 2 of the most sought after players from last seasons Championship. A couple of key injuries and we may struggle lets hope we can do a Wolves and be able to keep picking from a small squad throughout the season. No team cannot be improved upon so there is still work to be done but whether we will have the funds is worrying to contemplate. 4/10.

alderz

thornburyiron said:

Everyone keeps saying we haven’t signed a priority LB or LWB but I can’t recall Moyes ever saying that was a priority to him. He mentioned defensive positions but never specifically those positions so as far as he’s concerned maybe it’s been a successful window.
If it was left to us to make the decisions and signings we’d end up with about 25 players for each position judging by some of the preferences expressed on here.

Whether Moyes said it was a priority or not, doesn’t mean I am satisfied with the depth. Cresswell is not a left wing back. Johnson is not a left wing back. We have Masuaku, and without him the system falls apart.

Lukerz said:

The reality is, Coufal, Fredericks, Cresswell, Masuaku, Johnson as full-back options in a squad is going to be more than enough. That does not scream ‘reinforcements desperately required’. What it does need is upgrading, but we are not short there in terms of numbers & experience.

You’ve included three right backs and an inadequate left back in that list. What that ‘screams’ to me is ‘left wing back is a key position to make our formation work and we only have one’

Lukerz

I would imagine Fredericks would fill in for Masuaku if he ever was injured. Johnson is cover too. Cresswell may go over & another CB brought into the back three.

I get the complaints. The point is you can’t just sign anybody to say ‘well at least we now have another LWB’. They have to be good & better than what we have.

If we can’t secure that, we may as well wait.

I genuinely cannot think of a LWB off the top of my head. Manning is a LB, & a Championship one at that.

OldCastleSwift

I'll go back to a point I made earlier in the window; there are undoubtedly scores of better LB/LWBs in world football that are within our price range. The problem is our scouting network is completely inadequate to be able to identify them.

Nothing anyone says will convince me that Moyes thinks he has sufficient quality in that position. Like Alderz says, an injury to Masuaku and it's square pegs again, or a change in formation. I know we're not in a position to have two world class players in every position, but I honestly believe that a PL club should at least have genuine options in each position.

alderz

Lukerz said:

I would imagine Fredericks would fill in for Masuaku if he ever was injured. Johnson is cover too. Cresswell may go over & another CB brought into the back three.

I get the complaints. The point is you can’t just sign anybody to say ‘well at least we now have another LWB’. They have to be good & better than what we have.

If we can’t secure that, we may as well wait.

I genuinely cannot think of a LWB off the top of my head. Manning is a LB, & a Championship one at that.

Again, you’re listing people out of position as cover. May as well add Haller as cover, he’s played at LWB about as often as Fredericks has.

I’m not suggesting we sign ‘anyone’. But currently our back ups are people who don’t play there, so pretty much anyone would be an improvement on that.

And yeah, you or I may not be able to name a better LWB. But I hadn’t heard of Coufal or Soucek before we signed them, so I’d like to think that a professional football club in the richest league in the world have a more extensive knowledge than us.

OutcastLondoner

Don’t think an extra LWB needed to be better than what we have. They would have to be better than Cresswell playing there but it would be like signing Dawson, who a lot accept at least adds some acceptable cover.

It’s different if Moyes intends to revert to 4 at the back, in which case any signing would need to be better than what we have, because we have two players who aren’t great there. At LWB we need cover

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

I'm not going to complain that we don't have great back up in every position

What I am grateful for is that we have a great option for the LWB

We may not have a great back up LWB (as Cresswell can likely play there to an acceptable standard) but I'd be more worried if Masuaku AND Cresswell were both awful at LWB

We won plenty of points last year with Cresswell at LB in a back 4 as well

So again I'm not too bothered... again I would have liked an extra player there but I understand the players a. May not be available or b. Aren’t good enough

buffybegood

Very poor window for me. The squad is so thin that we're an injury or two away from a real struggle. We've only got 21 senior players that need registering, so we're at a 4 player disadvantage to most other squads in the league.

The sale of Diangana has left a sour taste in the mouth, and I'm not sure Benrahma is a significant improvement based on their performances in the Championship last season. In addition, Diangana is younger, one of our own, and didn't want to go, and, we'd have had him for the first 5 games of the season rather than being down a player for 13% of the league season. Especially given that it's eventually turned into a loan, it just feels as though it was about resolving a short term cash-flow problem, rather than about what's best for the team.

Further, the sale was supposed to help fund defensive improvements, and although I think most of us are happy to see Coufal arrive, by the time Dawson was signed it was more a case of "he's better than nothing I suppose"; a completely underwhelming signing given Diangana was sacrificed for it.

I don't hold with "we can't sign players if they don't want to come". The transfer window is long enough to establish whether players are interested in signing or not, rather than leaving it till the last day and then "failing to get it over the line despite our best efforts". I know not every club gets all the players they want, but we get this trotted out every summer. We're run by cheapskate clowns who haven't got a clue how to implement a long term recruitment plan.

If we say Benrahma is pretty much a direct replacement for Diangana, we've lost Anderson from the wide forwards. We've lost Wilshere, Sanchez and Cullen from midfield, Noble and Snodgrass are another year older and slower, and we signed who there? Up front Hugill, Ajeti and Silva are all gone, and we added who? I'm not saying that I'm that disappointed with many of those that have gone, but the squad is just so very thin now, even more so given our extremely poor injury record and the fact that we've already lost players to Covid and undoubtedly will again at various points through the season.

The only thing that stops this being a 1/10 window is that we kept Rice, which is huge. 3/10 for me, I fear the lack of depth will see another season of struggle unless we're really lucky with injuries.

Lukerz

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years said:

We won plenty of points last year with Cresswell at LB in a back 4 as well

This point is being missed quite a lot by many.

Our form over the last 11 PL games is: 18 points (5 wins, 3 draws, 3 defeats).

8 of those games were with Cresswell as a LB in a back four.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

So Everton....who many would say have had one of if not THE best transfer window this summer.....have just lost Coleman (RB) to injury and have had to bring on Godfrey...a CB

Having two players for every single position is difficult and we aren't alone...at least we do have two full backs

buffybegood

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years said:

So Everton....who many would say have had one of if not THE best transfer window this summer.....have just lost Coleman (RB) to injury and have had to bring on Godfrey...a CB

Having two players for every single position is difficult and we aren't alone...at least we do have two full backs

They might have a replacement in the squad but not on the bench.

baracks_a_hammer

In terms of individual players leaving and individual players arriving it is actually reasonably positive overall (although I still exclude Dawson from that list). And I rather Grady was not sold.

However in amongst that is that fact hugill and ajeti left at a huge loss and wilshere was paid off. I know it’s not my money but consistently poor stewardship means the club will time and again fall short in attempts to cover key positions properly because the cash and profitability (lack of) will prohibit it. How can it be thus when we have a stadium which didn’t need to be paid for and at a cheap rent.? The owners are just not very good at what they do and I generally don’t like the way they go about things either. So I would still much rather they go, and as soon as possible.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Lukerz said:

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years said:

We won plenty of points last year with Cresswell at LB in a back 4 as well

This point is being missed quite a lot by many.

Our form over the last 11 PL games is: 18 points (5 wins, 3 draws, 3 defeats).

8 of those games were with Cresswell as a LB in a back four.

I am no fan of Cresswell at LB, but the facts are there for all to see, he's not as bad as us fans think he is

Surprises me so many think its an awful window because we don't have two players for every single position and that those two players should both be starting quality which I just think is unrealistic

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

baracks_a_hammer said:

In terms of individual players leaving and individual players arriving it is actually reasonably positive overall (although I still exclude Dawson from that list). And I rather Grady was not sold.

However in amongst that is that fact hugill and ajeti left at a huge loss and wilshere was paid off. I know it’s not my money but consistently poor stewardship means the club will time and again fall short in attempts to cover key positions properly because the cash and profitability (lack of) will prohibit it. How can it be thus when we have a stadium which didn’t need to be paid for and at a cheap rent.? The owners are just not very good at what they do and I generally don’t like the way they go about things either. So I would still much rather they go, and as soon as possible.

But then surely you are happy that we haven't done a 16/17 season and bought 6 or 7 players this window for squad depth? Learning from past mistakes

Yes Dawson was a back up choice, but whether you me or anyone likes it he has been reported as a Moyes target as far back as August

And while we left it late to bring in Benrahma and Coufal, EXWHU reported our interest in these players as far back as July so we've obviously done our due diligence and obviously done what we can to get the deals that work best for us (the Benrahma loan deals makes sense financially to me)

buffybegood

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years said:

And while we left it late to bring in Benrahma and Coufal, EXWHU reported our interest in these players as far back as July so we've obviously done our due diligence and obviously done what we can to get the deals that work best for us (the Benrahma loan deals makes sense financially to me)

And, after starting the season 2 players down we lost our first 2 games.

baracks_a_hammer

Champo

But then don’t come out as a club and say the Grady sale was to strengthen defensively and then deliver the likes of Dawson? Don’t try and name Snodgrass as a cover option for the wing, only to then consider moving him on on deadline day? Better sometimes to say nothing at all, but how many times has this been said before about our owners. They just can’t help themselves.

On another front, we are making small positive steps in addressing our ludicrous payroll. I am hoping this is done with one eye on a possible sale of the club

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

buffybegood said:

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years said:

And while we left it late to bring in Benrahma and Coufal, EXWHU reported our interest in these players as far back as July so we've obviously done our due diligence and obviously done what we can to get the deals that work best for us (the Benrahma loan deals makes sense financially to me)

And, by starting the season 2 players down we lost our first 2 games.

Yea....2 games...out of 38...to get in the right players.....

And we could've lost those games even if we had already made our business as new signings aren't usually integrated straight away, even less so given the short pre season

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

baracks_a_hammer said:

Champo

But then don’t come out as a club and say the Grady sale was to strengthen defensively and then deliver the likes of Dawson? Don’t try and name Snodgrass as a cover option for the wing, only to then consider moving him on on deadline day? Better sometimes to say nothing at all, but how many times has this been said before about our owners. They just can’t help themselves.

On another front, we are making small positive steps in addressing our ludicrous payroll. I am hoping this is done with one eye on a possible sale of the club

Snodgrass almost moved on deadline day? Did he? All I heard where baseless rumours from unreliable sources whereas Exwhu (someone who has proven his reliability) said there was no bids

If you want to believe every rumour you hear on twitter then fair enough but I don't agree

Yes the money was going to be spent on defense, but maybe they realised getting their top target wasn't possible and they saw and opportunity to bring in a different type of player after the loan sale of Anderson

baracks_a_hammer

At the same time Dawson was “reported” as a Moyes target in August? It’s ok then to believe that one?

Lukerz

The sale of Diang would have been made with the hope we would use it to sign Tarkowski. In the end they wanted £40m, he did not submit a transfer request & the deal could not be done.

We then tried a couple of other options (Forfana, Marseille CB), both rejected. Those bids were reported as £35m, £33m & £20m.

We then went for Dawson on loan & focused on another area. Things change. No doubt the sale was made to sign a new player in defence. It didn’t happen.

I’d rather then hold fire instead of sign anybody. Dawson was done as a professional to boost numbers.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

baracks_a_hammer said:

At the same time Dawson was “reported” as a Moyes target in August? It’s ok then to believe that one?

From a reliable source who has constantly shown that he knows what's going on in the club and breaks the news first at every opportunity compared to compared to Gary@GSBout who heard from mirror football that Snodgrass wants to leave....

Yea

Fortuneseeker

All these discussions about who we should have signed, a better LB & CH, can be best summed up IMHO by the words “Groundhog Day” as very few transfer windows don’t follow the same path. We could have signed Forfana but we gave St Etienne a deadline to accept a deal under our terms & once it passed where did it get us, Dawson! GSB need to learn how to tie up deals like other teams do or better still let someone else do them by selling up.

baracks_a_hammer

Again I ask why did they say what they did about the reasons for the Grady sale to a clearly riled fan base? Of course we don’t want to throw
money at just anyone. But they still didn’t deliver (on that front)

Luckily the gap between windows is small. Let’s see if Dawson is needed and how he does if so.

baracks_a_hammer

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years said:

baracks_a_hammer said:

At the same time Dawson was “reported” as a Moyes target in August? It’s ok then to believe that one?

From a reliable source who has constantly shown that he knows what's going on in the club and breaks the news first at every opportunity compared to compared to Gary@GSBout who heard from mirror football that Snodgrass wants to leave....

Yea

Fine if that’s what you think. I just think you are picking and choosing to suit your argument.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

baracks_a_hammer said:

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years said:

baracks_a_hammer said:

At the same time Dawson was “reported” as a Moyes target in August? It’s ok then to believe that one?

From a reliable source who has constantly shown that he knows what's going on in the club and breaks the news first at every opportunity compared to compared to Gary@GSBout who heard from mirror football that Snodgrass wants to leave....

Yea

Fine if that’s what you think. I just think you are picking and choosing to suit your argument.

But Dawson and Benrahma were signed...

Snodgrass didn't leave

And you're point was that we were going to let Snodgrass leave as a stick to beat the window despite unreliable sources to suggest its true...

baracks_a_hammer

I’ve already stated my view on your point so let’s just leave it?

You obviously think what I’ve written is a load of old tosh. That’s fine. No-one’s died.

alderz

I feel like some people are deliberately mischaracterising what others have said. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone say (I know I haven’t said it) that we need two players of equal quality in every position. So being shocked that people aren’t happy at the window for that fact is kind of silly, seeing as nobody is saying it.

Once again, the reasons I don’t think it’s a good window:
1. We sold the main player I was excited to see play this season, for two thirds of the cost of his replacement, even though they have very comparable stats from last year
2. We have very little cover up front and in centre midfield and didn’t seem to even try to address it
3. We publicly stated that we wanted to strengthen in defence... and then didn’t
4. We play a wing back system but only have one left wing back in the squad. Note that the issue here isn’t that we have one good left wing back and one not so good. We have one. You can try to tell me that Cresswell is the backup, but I won’t accept that. I think he’s good as a LCB, average at LB. Not even on my radar as a wing back
5. The owner made an absolute joke of himself and the club in his interview on talkSPORT, which has left a very sour taste in the mouth, and highlights the level of incompetence at the club

EXETERHAMMER

I personally wanted another LB/LWB as priority so that we could keep the 5 at the back formation. I have no issue with Dawson as back up, think Coufal looked very good at RWB and have high hopes for Benrahma.
Anderson for me also needed to be moved on as I was frustrated with what I saw from him. A shame Wiltshire couldn't break through, but again made sense to move him on.
Diangana sale made no sense though.
It is interesting that for me Masuaku has become as important a player as Antonio, Rice and Soucek in the way we play. Again, why a back up for him would have been priority.
You never know, Johnson or Frederick's could do a job at LWB should he get injured.

Lukerz

I would rather trust Johnson to play as a LWB.

If he shows he can’t, we can address that position in January.