World Cup KO: En-ger-land, En-ger-land, En-ger-land (was 'Group G')

Lukerz

Unfortunately what yesterday showed was that we just aren't good enough to beat a half decent opponent. Croatia I would say are probably an 8/10 team, whereas England more a 7. Our key players didn't produce & the occasion got the better of us after HT. First half was as comfortable as it has been, but we retreated during the second, didn't appear to have the ambition to make it two & ended up paying the price. Kane, Sterling, Lingard, Ali etc all ineffective as the latter three have been all tournament to be honest. But this side has come across as more 'likeable' & I think that was the main reason for the feelgood factor & the support across the nation. As many have pointed out, victories over Tunisia, Panama, Columbia & Sweden are not really anything to return home as 'heroes' over, but we did well to still come through those games (other than Panama) & reach the semis thanks to the favourable draw & underachievement of the better nations. I think yesterday was too big an occasion & they didn't seem to know what to do once the game started to turn against them. Whilst we all like Southgate, I think there are still doubts over his ability to make game-changing decisions during a match when it is not going our way.

I agree that it seems like a massive opportunity lost. Croatia, whilst decent, were certainly beatable, but there just wasn't enough in that performance yesterday to come close to winning the game. Every tournament is different & I don't think the fact we reached the semis is in any way a predictor of how we'll do in the next major tournament, so phrases like "we need to build on this" are almost irrelevant because next tournament it will be a different squad, different XI, different players for other teams, different managers etc. The core players will remain (Stones, Pickford, Ali, Kane, Sterling) but beyond that you just don't know.

But if we'd been offered a semi final extra time 2-1 defeat back in May, we would have all taken it.

Bazshuayi

Whilst everyone is obviously disappointed and, yes, we missed a golden opportunity (but France are IMO comfortably stronger than Croatia anyway) but the positives have been there to be seen.

e.g. Southgates reputation totally grew. A new system/philosophy which we adapted to pretty well and got plenty of positive comments from other teams players/former players etc plus a team spirit and bond I've not seen before

Our youngsters have won world cups and Toulon tournaments recently which further boosts us. Lads who have experienced winning things early

Perhaps the midfield creativity will come from one or two of them.

Our current side has plenty of young players who now have big tournament experience allied to champions league too

The youngest players like Loftus Cheek, Rashford, Stones will surely improve. Perhaps players like Phil Foden, Jadon Sancho, Rhian Brewster etc from the younger sides will fill that creativity void too?

Over all I now feel a lot more positive about the national side and its potential. Those recent World Cup wins etc already gave me hope prior to the Russia 2018. We have something to build on and, after Iceland, that seemed a long way away...

Disappointed but more proud

baracks_a_hammer

It has to be said, perisic’s equaliser was a wonderful wonderful goal. Unbelievable cross and incredible technique for the finish - he had no right at all to score from there. Dare I say it, Arnie-esque.

Game changer.

ASLEFshrugged

Bring on the Euros

SuzanneClaret

What a fantastic tournament, it brought me a actual joy ;biggrin

MrsGrey

Lukerz said:

Whilst we all like Southgate, I think there are still doubts over his ability to make game-changing decisions during a match when it is not going our way.
.

;ok

We all* like him because (in part) of how the media has chosen to portray him. He's been given an easy ride, imo

The doubts about his ability persist because his ability is in doubt! (again, imo) He, like the team, is inexperienced at this level and he, unlike the team, is inexperienced at club level. He was promoted beyond his level of qualifications and experience. Time will tell if he will grow into the job.



*I actually am indifferent.

MrsGrey

Pearces_Left_Foot said:

he is great at banging them in against lesser opposition but when he comes to a game with some pressure against quality opponents he does n't do it.

That's partly (imo) because better opposition are better at marking him out of the game. Plus, he suffers because of the limitations of the team against better opposition: he's a finisher but last night he was coming so deep to get the ball simply because we had nobody in MF creative enough to get it to him up front. So we were triply-weakened. No MF creativity, our best striker out of position, and Kane not occupying 2 opposition defenders.

IronHerb

Well he did have a 1 on 1 with the keeper and an open goal from 1 m out.

ASLEFshrugged

Someone has started an online petition to give Gareth Southgate a knighthood. While I think he's done far better than anyone expected him to compared to the other football players and managers who've received knighthoods I don't think Southgate has done enough.

1965 Stanley Matthews
1967 Alf Ramsey
1968 Matt Busby
1978 Walter Winterbottom
1994 Bobby Charlton
1998 Tom Finney
1998 Geoff Hurst
1999 Alex Ferguson
2002 Bobby Robson
2004 Trevor Brooking
2018 Kenny Dalglish

Bobby Robson got a CBE after getting England to the 1990 WC semi final, that would do for Southgate but not a knighthood.

baracks_a_hammer

It would be criminal for anyone to be honoured in this way for beating Columbia and Sweden.

If honours are to be given, save them, say, for the divers who risked their lives to save the Thai boys

Cuz1

Wow a knighthood for beating Sweden panama and Tunisia and losing to Belgium and Croatia a good tournament but not a knighthood earning one imo

Expat_Hammer

A night in an Ibis hotel perhaps

IronHerb

Suddenly England are rubbish. Excellent.

Cuz1

IronHerb said:

Suddenly England are rubbish. Excellent.

Not what I’m saying Ironherb if that post was meant for me just don’t feel it warrants a knighthood

IronHerb

Not the knighthood Cuz, just the 'we only beat'.

Cuz1

Did you forget the we had a good tournament bit lol and to reiterate my opinion I thought we played better football than for a while and exceeded expectations but not knighthood material yet

baracks_a_hammer

No knighthood, no MBE, no cbe, no obe- simples

Yeoldhammer

For me England have gone from being a Lower Tier-2 team to, a Top Tier-2 team. Not a Tier 1 team yet. But have potential if they keep growing. Certainly though the tournament has proved they are now back with the other Top Tier 2 teams competing.

mike

Might as well give him a knighthood, everyone else has got one. ;wink

baracks_a_hammer

v interesting points made by Mrs G

If, say Sam had come into this tournament and his main method of scoring goals/creating chances was corners/set pieces he would likely have received pelters because the natural instinct by many is to dislike him

However, if Southgate does it, he is seen to have given the team “an identity” and everyone warms to him

;hmm

Hammerwombat

mike said:

Might as well give him a knighthood, everyone else has got one. ;wink

Bobby Moore never got one. And he achieved quite a lot.

ASLEFshrugged

Last year England was 10th in the ELO rankings (a lot more accurate than the FIFA ones), as of last night we are 7th. Not as good as Germany, Spain or Brazil but better than Portugal, Argentina and Italy.

Croatia jumped from 16th to 5th

http://www.eloratings.net/

Yeoldhammer

I still wouldn't say England are a top 10 team, but I certainly would say now, we have moved into that 10th - 15th bracket comfortably. I think before the tournament we were probably around the 20th - 25th mark.

Pearces_Left_Foot

I hope we can emulate Germany, 2006 they has a very young team got to the semi final /2010 semi final again / 2014 champions

alderz

re: the Southgate vs Sam comments earlier

Southgate hasn't only relied on set pieces, and the style of play is very different to what Sam would have almost certainly done. We wouldn't have seen the defenders play out confidently with Sam in charge, we wouldn't have had such a young side, we would have been far less likeable as a team, IMO.

Southgate has had an easy ride from the press, but I think he's only had that because he has earned it.

OutcastLondoner

Southgate was pretty roundly mocked as an appointment. He’s turned that around and earned himself space from the press.

There’s a lot more there to praise than I think is being suggested, even if thete’s also a lot to address.

Lingard put in a lot of work and helped make England look dynamic, even if he faded in parts of games.

Sterling needs to work on his finishing but he absolutely terrorised Croatia early in the game and did similar against Sweden. He stretched the back line like no one else. Rashford doesn’t have the same impact because he seems to want to take players on himself rather than run off the ball.

Alli was not as good as we’ve seen for Tottenham but he still provided the only midfield creativity - winning the free kick and several smart through balls in the game that other attackers didn’t make the most of.

The whole defence were generally pretty good. Kane did his job for a while. England have some really good RWB options.

Sort out that midfield and they have a lot to offer

baracks_a_hammer

I don’t think you can say with certainty what Sam would/would not have done with a longer reign. He was the one who gave Reece Burke a run of games at West Ham. And when he had us flying at the start of one of his seasons with us the football was v pleasing on the eye. Who knows what he would have done with a full complement of player me to choose from at national level. What I am certain of though is that the media would have been circling around him like vultures waiting for any small opportunity to swoop

BubblesNeverDies

I wonder if the header from Perisic to Mandzukic to score their second would have been different if Trippier hadn't shoved Perisic in the back. The ball certainly would have taken a different trajectory and may well not have found Mandzukic. ;hmm

Yeoldhammer

Wasn't his fault, Stones let Mandzukic run right by him. Momentary lapse of concentration on his part. Which was amusing considering he supposedly had cramp and needed lifting to hit feet from Alli and Co. lol

Cuz1

baracks_a_hammer said:

I don’t think you can say with certainty what Sam would/would not have done with a longer reign. He was the one who gave Reece Burke a run of games at West Ham. And when he had us flying at the start of one of his seasons with us the football was v pleasing on the eye. Who knows what he would have done with a full complement of player me to choose from at national level. What I am certain of though is that the media would have been circling around him like vultures waiting for any small opportunity to swoop

Games all about ifs if Carrol and Wilshire had been fit they’d have been on that plane