West Ham vs Tottenham - 12:30 Saturday 23.9.17 (match thread)

MrsGrey

;hmm

Don't they all follow the Fifa rules?

MunichHammer

I would have thought so. But from my experience the only reason not to penalise a handball in the box is if you are hit at point blank range. Anything else is usually deemed as interfering with the course of the game.

Moore_than_a_nick

Pardew, Redknapp and Teddy on sky seemed to think we should have had three pens. Well, they may not all have agreed on the third, but certainly enough hard luck to feel we had a moral victory today.

That said, I am just so sick of Bilic's team selection and subs. He seems so far behind the majority of punters. Took him three games to see we needed to go three at the back when most of us saw that in pre-season. Then today his starting 11 was OK but even a non-West Ham fan in the pub said we should have put Ayew on instead of Carroll. Then we were all shouting in the first half for Masuaku for Fonte at half-time and Bilic waited too long...

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

Didn't think there was anything wrong with the initial lineup and not sure too many disagreed. What I found strange was working on that three in training all week and when you had to change it because of another injury, you go completely the other way and bring on AC instead of Ayew?

Can't fault the effort, we were doing okay until Antonio went off. not sure any of the penalties were nailed on but if there is any consistency in the game then the last one has to be given as it's no less a foul than what Zaba got done for against saints.

They're a very good side and they will punish you.

chicagohammer

Thought it was game over at 3-0 down but we gave them a run for their money, definately a pen on AC at the end, the problem I think was that in real time it may have looked a touch theatrical, and more a result of his momentum.

Nevertheless, IMO it was a penalty and I think that we were unlucky not to get a point.

Hernandez was also unlucky, showed what a natural goal scorer he can be, took his goal well and hit the target with a couple of really sharp efforts within the box, one a header and another a snapshot.

Why oh why are our set plays so terrible, so many times we fail to beat the first man, and Ayew still fails to give me any confidence whatsoever.

Ho hum

COYI

Adam

Having seen the highlights on tv, their first goal was interesting.

According to the rules, Kane wasn't offside because he wasn't interfering in the 'first phase'. He then becomes active in the 'second phase'. BUT he's gained such a massive advantage from being so far ahead of our defenders for the second phase, it really should be offside. Our defenders couldn't get back quick enough.

Pengeman

Bilic sent Carroll on because with him WHU had secured 4 points form two previous games, but he can't score without good supply. Also he is a bit statuesque compared to other centre forwards. He did not have a good game - gave the ball away for the first Tottenham goal and was beaten for the second one; made no effort to chase his markers who went marauding forward. I think Sakho is more effective and mobile when he is focused.

Not sure what Ayew contributed today. Cresswell wasn't that good. Can full-backs really play wing-backs? I don't think Zab or Cresswell contributed much today offensively. Masuaku looked more dangerous when he came on. Noble looked laboured. Was he fully fit?

WHU should have had a penalty for tug on Arnautivic, but overall Arnautivic was not that effective today. He owes us a good game.

A must-win game next week and hope that Antonio will be fit.

claretandbluesky

For me replay technology cannot come soon enough as it will stop players thinking they might not get seen with that push that Carroll had today, I think we will see higher scoring games as all the little stuff in the penalty area which makes a difference will not get tried as it will be seen.

Referees are generally poor and the technology will help them do a better job. Carroll's whole body shape demonstrated he had received a push but a referee and linesman failed to award it.

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

Adam said:

Having seen the highlights on tv, their first goal was interesting.

According to the rules, Kane wasn't offside because he wasn't interfering in the 'first phase'. He then becomes active in the 'second phase'. BUT he's gained such a massive advantage from being so far ahead of our defenders for the second phase, it really should be offside. Our defenders couldn't get back quick enough.

Spot on

buffybegood

Adam said:

Having seen the highlights on tv, their first goal was interesting.

According to the rules, Kane wasn't offside because he wasn't interfering in the 'first phase'. He then becomes active in the 'second phase'. BUT he's gained such a massive advantage from being so far ahead of our defenders for the second phase, it really should be offside. Our defenders couldn't get back quick enough.

I made this point in the game, it's crazy that he can be ahead of all our players but inactive (so not offside) and yet a couple of seconds later scoring, how is that inactive? Van Nistelroy used to be an expert at this, it's the major flaw in the current offside rule imo.

MrsGrey

Pengeman said:

I don't think Zab or Cresswell contributed much today offensively. Masuaku looked more dangerous when he came on.

Zabaleta

grey_til_I_dye

So we lost 3-2 at Soton due to a push being given as a pen, and lost 2-3 to Spurs due to a push not being given as a pen. ;angry

FlorinRaduclious

RaducliousReport
First time I've seen us in the flesh this season: firstly, great noise and atmosphere by the fans. A real cauldron at the start, and when our second goal went in it went mental!

We were very good for the first half hour and were the better side. Whilst I originally thought pre game 4231 would have suited this match better, the 3421 was working very well. However when Ant went down forcing a substitution surprisingly Carroll came on rather than Ayew. This unfortunately damaged our shape as once again Hernandez was shifted wingwards and for all his excellent running, his skillset does not suit that position. They then punished us from two mistakes allowing them to break at speed. Carroll made a ridiculous blind pass for the first. For their second, Carroll again lost the ball in the middle. A really poor five minutes by the big lad, but he still offers us such a different option up top when he's on.

Second half with our formation now not working so well Spurs had the ascendancy and scored a 3rd in the fallout from a very good Kane free kick. We always looked like we had a goal in us in spite of only few shots on target, eventually Chicharito was unsurprisingly in the right place at the right time to nod home after Fonte's superb flick on from a corner. We went effectively 442 once their lad got sent off and Ayew and Masuaku were on. We were dominating at this point but struggled for clear cut chances as Spurs were defending deep. For our second excellent wing play by Arthur put the ball invitingly in their area and Kouyate thumped a header home. We pressed for an equaliser but could not break break them down again. At the end a massive bit of handbags that to us stemmed from a really bad elbow on Carroll. Not replayed on MOTD so not sure how bad it was but looked awful from where we were - and the players were incensed. The ref was overly cautious with cards until the last 20 mins, and IMO didn't really control the game. Whilst I don't want to see cards unnecessarily, in a fiery encounter with a fair few poor tackles (mainly by them I might add) the first yellow was only shown on the 64th minute.

Fonte in general had a very good game IMO, as did Reid (in spite of conceeding 3). Both Noble and Kouyate did well against a very good Tottenham midfield, but struggled for options in front once our formation became compromised. Kouyate was full of running and hassling, and Noble was keeping the ball and spreading play nicely. Overall, I feel the team did well and battled hard. Could have been a very different game had Ant not got injured. I did not see the penalty claims so well live, but since seeing replays we probably should have had at least 1! Despite the loss I came home feeling that positives are there, and that with a touch more luck everything will click and points will come. We've got some very winnable matches coming up now, and I expect us to start ascending the table.

FlorinFactoid
Excellent motorbike/scooter parking at the Westfield leaving a simple walk to the ground.

MrsGrey

Love the factoid! ;lol

FlorinRaduclious

Ha, it's the second time I've done it on two wheels, after being let down by the services of the trains and irritated by their excessive cost.

I've probably made an error announcing it though as I got the second to last spot when I arrived, I'll be gutted if next time there is no space for me!

mike

I hate this offside rule.Are you interfering with play or not,it's such a grey area.

At least with the old offside rule you knew where you stood(excuse the pun ;yercoat)

thornburyiron

There was a point in the first half when Noble chased through onto the ball from a position way onside but Hernandez was given offside because he hesitantly took a step towards the ball before letting Nobes run past.
If you can be given offside when you're actually onside but had earlier been in an offside position but not be given offside in Kane's situation when he clearly had an advantage by being in the offside position earlier ie one pass earlier.

imagelost

Jorderz_Slaven_A_Good_Time said:

If this free-kick doesn't beat the first man I'm going to microwave my own head.

I remember listening to talksport one morning,, I think it was live on tv ,,, or sum sort of webcam,, anyway someone texted
"Andy gray, has your head been in a microwave "
Just saying
Are trying to look like Andy gray
;beer

thornburyiron

I'm not sure exactly which free kick jorderz was referring to but has anybody heard from him since. I'd like to think it did beat the first man.

alderz

It was the one right on the side of the box, and cresswell DID beat the first man. I think it was the second man who headed it away

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

It missed the first man but not the second man a yard behind him. So I used the waffle iron instead.

MrsGrey

Oldskool

MIAHammer

mike said:

I hate this offside rule.Are you interfering with play or not,it's such a grey area.

At least with the old offside rule you knew where you stood(excuse the pun ;yercoat)

Someone once famously said "If he's not interfering with play, then what's he doing on the pitch."

Pengeman

Not so long ago WHU was overloaded with wingers (not necessarily all that good) but now have a scarcity. Ball players can create chances and mesmerise the opposition. Arnautovic did not do that against Spurs. If Carroll is played we need good wingers who can get to he bye-line and make good crosses otherwise there are too many straight balls for the opposing defence to head away. Players like David Ginola and Andrei Kanchelskis may be scarce but we don't seem to have effective wingers. Was it a good move to sell Feghouli? May be in the next game Bilic could try Holland. Masuaku showed promise with a couple of good dribbles too.

OutcastLondoner

We're unbalanced now. It's not just that we don't have wingers but that our attacking system doesn't make a lot of sense.

Feghouli would've at least made the wide runs we needed and tried to put crosses in. We've apparently sold him for no reason.

Arnautovic and Hernandez are the worst foil for Carroll. One wants to cut in and the other is a striker. Who's supplying Carroll? When Antonio's gone we're dysfunctional. Lanzini isn't the answer here either. I'd rather see Ayew told to play wife left and supply the strikers, he's done it plenty in his career.

If Carroll is playing I'd rather see Masuaku play as winger. I think he (maybe excluding Ayew) is the only one who will run at defences and out crosses in.

Arnautovic is the new ;jarvis

ammerinaberdeen

MunichHammer said:

I would have thought so. But from my experience the only reason not to penalise a handball in the box is if you are hit at point blank range. Anything else is usually deemed as interfering with the course of the game.

ammerinaberdeen

Is Ayew's wife any good then?

OutcastLondoner

ammerinaberdeen said:

Is Ayew's wife any good then?

;lol the left one is, right one not so much.

ASLEFshrugged

Arnie struggled after Antonio went off because Spurs realised they only had to worry about the left wing so every time he got the ball he had two men on him.

We were lopsided because despite all the reports that say Hernandez was playing on the wing he wasn't

Kuchinghammer

I had a nagging feeling that wingers would have most injuries this year. Back to square pegs in round holes, or bring on the young ones?