West Ham UNITED away to Boro - Sat 21st Jan - 3pm Kick off

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  • We've tried Obiang and Kouyate together before, against Man U (Feghouli sent off, 0-2) and Astra Giurgiu (0-1) this season, against WBA (1-1) and Liverpool last season (0-0).

    Logically there's no reason why dropping Noble to play Kouyate with Obiang isn't a good idea and I'm a huge fan of logic but until we win one without him I'm advocating he starts whenever he's available.

    It get my stats of the interwebby thing, a bit of digging and its amazing the rubbish you can find.
  • Here comes an unpopular opinion (I'm expecting no 'agrees' here!):

    I kick off by saying I love Kouyate, his tenacity, energy, tackling/hassling, drive, etcetc are fantastic and I want him at my club - top player.

    However, for me, on the presumption we play a 2 man centre mid (either for a 4;2;3;1 or 3;4;2;1 or 4;4;2) then the best available are Obiang and Noble. For me although Kouyate offers so much his greatest let down is what I want my CM's to be top at: passing. Yes both Ob and Nobes make erroneous passes a few times per game but K usually makes just as many and on top just doesn't spread the play anywhere near as well, or have the ability to play a 'technical' quick short passing game that many of us like to see.

    As I didn't see the Fonte transfer coming, in my head I was seeing him as Reids partner on return from Africa (had felt Ogbonna was poor) and deputising as third choice CM when Ob or Nobes were unavailable. Now however I believe Fonte should rightfully take the other CB slot, so that leaves Cheik on the bench for me, coming on when we need his drive or when the other two are out/ not in form.
    (Please don't hate me ;lol , ;puzzled )
  • Food for thought certainly ;hmm
  • As you will know I'm not the greatest Noble fan but I thought his display yesterday was his best of the season. His lack of pace will occasionally put him in trouble but the silly backward passes disappeared which then improves the momentum of the team. He was tackling and organising to good effect.
    I do think Kouyate and Obiang are the way forward but for yesterday, at least, hats off to Nobes.
  • Where's is Norbert? ;hmm
  • Don't really get the whole untill we win one without him because if they don't get the chance then we'll never know

    Yes we've yet to win one without him (we've only played 2) but it's worth noting that in his 20 games this year in the EPL we've lost 8, some of them by quite a lot of goals where

    It's a good problem to have and maybe depends on the opposition, but I'd take Kouyate running from midfield and defensive contribution over Nobles passing, especially as we have Obiang, Lanzini and Feghouli in the midfield who can all pass

    Perhaps Noble for when we are favourites and Kouyate for when we aren't

    It's going to be a big call from Bilic regardless if he wants to persist with 4 at the back....which why shouldn't we we've won the last 2 games 6-1 overall.... then one of Noble (Mr West Ham), Obiang (Current hammer of the year?), Lanzini (the guy who makes us tick), Feghouli (our onpy winger) or Kouyate (one of our best players since he's joined) will miss out
  • edited January 2017
    Injured, I think Luke

    But I do wonder if he'll return to Germany in the summer. Next season I think he'll be fifth choice CM behind Noble, Obiang, Kouyate and Fernandes, and maybe even sixth if Cullen isn't loaned again, and assuming we get a right back he won't be needed as back-up there.

    He came with a good reputation and I think there's a good player in there, but he won't get a kick all the time the rest of the team are fit.
  • Lukerz / OCS - I really feel for Nordtveit. I had great reports about him prior to his arrival, he was the captain of a top German team, a regular international etc. He came in when we were struggling for form, it always takes non prior prem players time to adjust, and he was generally often played in a non favoured position. I believe he is the player who has suffered most from us not extending our trips to Europe this season for the extra games and squad rotation therefore required. Of course this will continue to be the case next season as I cannot see us qualifying this season. So a real quandary for us/him as he doesn't make our first 11 (IMO) and without Europe he won't be getting much action. It maybe best all round for him to move on, but I will be sad because I feel he is a good player and we have not seen the best of him. Ideally we'd keep him, he'd get his form and be a good backup and hopefully qualify for Europe the season after. However I doubt if he'll accept being a regular bench sitter for another full season given his prior pedigree, the fact he's in his prime, and his international place up for grabs.
  • IronHerb said:

    the silly backward passes disappeared which then improves the momentum of the team

    Could it possibly be that without "S McSF" (just for Suze) as the creative focus Noble and everyone else has better passing options ahead of them? Just a thought.

    Also for the second goal if AC hadn't got it Feghouli was racing in at the far post, think we're going to see a few more goals from him.
  • And for the first I think Antonio just just behind Andy Carroll ;biggrin
  • I haven't seen the last two games (and so am also taking credit for the results), but can anybody comment on whether it looks like, since Bilic came out and drew a line under Payet, the players are more settled, more confident and more committed? Just a private theory.
  • edited January 2017
    I'd say so yes ;ok look better without him in or around the team.
  • It's hard to say Secret but I don't think it can be discounted.
  • Yes, yes and yes Secret.
  • Not that hard to say after all ;lol
  • I'd like to see us try the diamond in midfield like we used play under Sam a bit. With Obiang at the base, Kouyate and Noble at the sides (tucked in) and Lanzini at the top, behind Carroll and Antonio (or Ayew when fit). I think Feghouli is showing signs of being a useful addition, but only as a winger in a 4-4-2. I don't think he's looked good in other formations, when he has to play in a front 3, for example, and his finishing has been hit and miss. So play him when a 4-4-2 looks best suited to the opposition, but when Kouyate comes back, I'd hope to see him, Noble, Obiang and Lanzini all playing in midfield, with Cressers and Byram providing the width and crosses.

    On the other hand, I'm not so sure about Lanzini on the left of midfield in a 4-4-2. He does track back, but we don't get the best out of him, I don't think. He needs to be freer and more central. Of course it can work and has worked against certain opposition. But I think it could also be good, with the current squad that lacks a top-class left-footed wide man, to mix up Antonio and Lanzini from time to time: one on the "wing" and the other supporting Carroll in their own way, with Lanzini of course playing behind Carroll like a classic no. 10.

    Who should drop out of CM when we do play a 4-4-2? I'd never drop Cheik unless he was really out of form. He isn't captain of Senegal for nothing. Obiang also, in spite of an overall good game, turned into danger yesterday and nearly conceded a goal, and has done this in other games, though less than Nobes this season. Nobes has hit far too many poor passes, but has the match-winning pass in his locker much more than Pedro. It's just got to be on form and opposition. As I say, I'd avoid the issue by dropping Feghouli and playing a diamond most the time. Anyone else favour this option?
  • Will Kouyate be back from ACON in time?
  • and unbroken ;hmm
  • edited January 2017
    Nick, certainly enjoyed our diamond at the time but I'm not convinced it's viable at the moment, for any prem team. I think 4-2-3-1 is when we've been our best the last couple of seasons, ignoring the first few games of this season. We have the right players for that three behind the striker to cause a lot of problems. Harsh on one of Nobes, Kouyate or Obiang, but one has to be a sub in my book. For me, as Florin mentioned, I put passing above all else for those 2 slots so currently Kouyate has to make way as much as I love the bloke.
  • “I saw Cress laughing at half-time when he saw he (Traore) had come over to my side!”
    Read more at http://www.whufc.com/news/articles/2017/january/22-january/sam-stakes-his-claim#6LJgLJM2y3wcDGqH.99

    ;lol
  • The thing is, none of them arrests seem to have anything to do with football.
  • None of the LS arrests were either (if memory serves).
  • Found this on youtube, thought id share...

    Nobes hobbling about

This discussion has been closed.