Declan Rice - Signs 5 1/2 year deal (or does he...)

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Comments

  • Cuz1Cuz1
    Think what we forget about here is that he’s a young man starting out in the game who happens to be good, how good maybe even the boy himself didn’t realise so maybe he chose ROI for that reason and now sees being dual nationality he’s good enough not his fault ref the laws behind it
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    Cuz

    Yes, but I don't see anyone blaming Rice particularly.

    I would hope that his choice was always down to where he felt he belonged, rather than what was best for his career.
  • MarkNobleLocalHeroMarkNobleLocalHero
    Born in London, Declan is about as Irish as Ronald Reagan that other well known Irishman.
    I myself am 2nd generation Irish born in London and wouldn't dream of playing up to this romantic oirishness nonsense.
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    Grey,

    I'm playing devil's advocate here, but could I, born in England, identify myself with a Tibetan even if I had never been in Tibet and had only a rudimentary knowledge of the country? ;hmm
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited February 2019
    Who could stop you? There's no law against it. You can identify with a tulip if you like.


    Perhaps you were Tibetan in a previous incarnation ;biggrin ;llama
    However, if you want to play football for Tibet, you'll need to meet the FIFA requirements.
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    MNLH

    Which 'romantic oirishness nonsense' would that be?
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    bubbles, turn it round the other way. Can I, born in Britain of British parents and having lived in Britain most of my life NOT identify myself with Britain.

    If we are playing identity police. ;biggrin
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited February 2019
    MrsGrey said:

    Who could stop you? There's no law against it. You can identify with a tulip if you like.

    I've no idea why I specified a tulip ;lol

    Do you think anybody ever has?
  • HamstewHamstew
    Maybe it's what you subconsciously identify yourself with ;hmm
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    ;hmm

    Maybe I was Dutch in a former incarnation. (No pun intended.)
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    edited February 2019
    MrsG, I don't know about a tulip, but here's someone with an identity issue:

    imageimage

    ;biggrin

    Also, I did think that we were talking in footballing terms, damn those FIFA rules.

    And, sorry, but I couldn't help myself. ;lol

  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    MrsG, no pun intended, as if ;lol
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    ;angel
  • MarkNobleLocalHeroMarkNobleLocalHero
    edited February 2019
    Grey, you ask
    Which 'romantic oirishness nonsense' would that be?
    The kind of Oirish nonsense that has people like the late Ronnie Reagan claiming Irishness for himself. Too much romanticism for my taste.

    Anyone is free to identify themselves in anyway they wish if it makes them feel better about themselves but don't expect it to be taken seriously by others.
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    MNLH

    I've no idea what others, or their opinions, would have to do with it, and why it would matter what they thought.

    Separately, according to this, Reagan spent much of his life downplaying his Irish roots:

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/reagan-feared-irish-roots-would-damage-his-career-26225824.html

  • Pearces_Left_FootPearces_Left_Foot
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/columnists/paul-rouse/--904605.html

    A decent article about Rice and identity
  • LukerzLukerz
    edited February 2019
    Think it’s disgusting some of the comments in the media this morning from several people; the latest being Micky Quinn accusing Rice of chasing the money he’ll get from the added exposure he’ll get for England.

    He made a huge decision, in the rush of the moment, at 18/19 to represent ROI when called up. Why wouldn’t he? He qualified & probably was excited about international football & representing a country he proudly associated with. He played a couple of friendlies. He has had a whirlwind last year let’s face it.

    After that he probably thought ‘hang on, I need to think about this before 100% committing because I also proudly associate with England too’. He had a lot going on. Playing every week for us, contract situation, playing international football etc. He has decided it is only fair to take a step back & take six months to think it over. He has decided, not in the rush of the moment, once other factors have died down, he wants to represent England & I think all we should assume is he proudly identifies with both (like I might West Ham & England), but he feels England is the stronger association now that he has thought it through.

    From what I saw in the media & the impression I got (maybe wrongly) was there seemed a big furore & effort form ROI to get him to commit, & maybe that pressure eventually put him off? England seem to have taken a step back & just let him have his time to make a decision. Maybe that played a part?

    But some of these comments from the ex players commenting on his decision to switch, like they have a right to decide who he identifies with & crucify him for maybe rushing into it when he was originally flattered by a call from Ireland, they need to take a long look at themselves.
  • MarkNobleLocalHeroMarkNobleLocalHero
    Separately, according to this, Reagan spent much of his life downplaying his Irish roots:
    Well, that is interesting as he certainly didn't when he was president. Just shows how this Oirishness is something to be picked up and then put down again as expediency requires.
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    Lukerz

    I must be seeing comments from different players to you.

    I haven't seen anyone crucifying Rice.

    I didn't see anything about Ireland pressurising Rice.

    Plenty of people on here have suggested that non-footballing reasons may have influenced Rice, so it's not just Mickey Quinn.

    Rice started playing for the Republic at U16 level.

    Your suggestions as to why he accepted the call up is a flight of fancy. We have no idea what his thought processes were.

    I think a lot of the frustration expressed would have been lessened if Rice hadn't appeared so whole-hearted in his commitment to playing for Ireland, only to change his mind.
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    Just shows how this Oirishness is something to be picked up and then put down again as expediency requires.
    Bit like Deccers, then... ;whistle
  • YeoldhammerYeoldhammer
    I think its disappointing overall but its the system that has allowed it, not Rice par-se. But this is not specific to Football. Rugby is far worse.

    For me personally I agree with a comment I saw in the news that when you hit 18 and sign your first professional contract you should have to declare for the international country you wish to represent then.
  • WHU_Champo_league_in_7_yearsWHU_Champo_league_in_7_years
    I'm gutted for Ireland

    The Irish NT is in shambles and Rice could've given them a player to build around

    But personally I understand why he has chosen England, it's the correct career move and hes an ambitious lad

    But yes I'm super disappointed
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    Di Stefano played for Argentina, Columbia and Spain, Puskas played in the 1954 World Cup for Hungary and the 1962 World Cup for Spain.

    Ireland haven't qualified for the World Cup since 2002, the starting line up for their last game against Denmark in November had five players from the Championship.
  • SlackerSlacker
    One of my nans was Welsh an the other was Scottish.So I could have played for 3 countries,I waited and waited..................and waited for the offers to come in......................
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    I find it dispiriting that many people applaud Deccers for following his 'ambition' and improving his prospects.

    I realise I am a romantic, but I would hope that the first reason anyone had for playing for a particular country was their passion for that country, and their desire to represent it.

    I would hope that all players shared Giggs' passion: when asked if he regretted not playing for England:
    I'd rather go through my career without qualifying for a major championship than play for a country where I wasn't born or which my parents didn't have anything to do with
    I get that Deccers is in a different position re: qualification for two countries, but I just wanted to highlight that for Giggs it was the pride of playing for his country, not the potential rewards/prospects, that motivated him.

    I hope Deccers shares the same pride in England, and that that is what motivated him.
  • LukerzLukerz
    His agent has a big influence by all accounts (played hardball over contract until we offered him £30k). Wouldn’t surprise me if he spoke to Rice about potential future career moves by representing England.

    Hopefully Rice has a passion for England as he claims he did for ROI. I suppose he could have equal feeling to both countries & so the decision comes down to what he thinks is best for him.
  • Cuz1Cuz1
    His dad apparently has said today the decision was a shock to him has his family were very Irish and Declan grew up in a Irish/English environment but he supported his sons decision
  • BazshuayiBazshuayi
    To be fair, according to reports/his Dad, he was born in London and grew up in an English/Irish influenced environment. There's a decent possibility and no reason to disbelieve he has passion and love for both countries. Perhaps the ex players can say that too? Perhaps they cant? I'd say the likes of Townsend would've jumped at the chance to play for England if thought good enough and given the chance. Ireland have had to look hard in terms of qualification and heredity links to boost their squads. When Jack Charlton was manager it felt like a decent percentage of the team were English players who were basically overlooked by England and saw an opportunity to play international football with Ireland. Maybe thats my memory fading as I cant claim anything to back it up. Just a case of what it seemed like going back years.
  • BazshuayiBazshuayi
    After quick fire research, there are some massive Irish international legends (McGrath, O'Leary, Houghton, Townsend, Sheedy, Aldridge, Lawrensen...) who were born outside of Ireland. Some of them had Irish accents, some totally didnt!

    I have no issue with players (whatever countries are involved) playing for different countries and its a route for plenty who wouldnt get the chance to play otherwise.

    With Rice in mind, hes lucky hes talented enough to be coveted and, what seems more important, he has ties/affection for both countries too.

    If it was up to me, I'd let him play for both. Sort of loan him back to Ireland when hes not in the England team (which isnt going to happen because hes nailed on for the DM spot for years if he improves only a fraction let alone plenty) ;lol ;yercoat
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    It's pretty dismissive to suggest that dual-qualified players only played for Ireland as they weren't good enough for England.

    It may or may not be true of some players, but without speaking to them, we can't know.
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