West Ham vs Arsenal (A) Match Thread 22.04.2018

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  • Slaven_Cups_His_BeardSlaven_Cups_His_Beard
    edited April 2018
    Because I’ve watched it back numerous times, he shouts “clear it” a split second before the ball gets to Rice, who then reacting to any shout and ducks

    When they look at each other after the goal, Hart clearly says to Rice “I said clear it”

    Bottom line hart didn’t need to shout anything it caused confusion unfortunately

    If hart does nothing what happens? Rice clears it all day long as that’s what he’s trained to do
  • thornburyironthornburyiron
    I don't think it matters a jot what Hart said or didn't say, Rice should have headed it away. Could you really imagine Ginge doing what he did. He'd have headed it away and then told Hart "you do your job and I'll do mine".
  • MarkNobleLocalHeroMarkNobleLocalHero
    Suze ........
    he’s given Mario and Fernandez far too long on the pitch
    ^^THIS^^
  • FortuneseekerFortuneseeker
    S_C_H_B,

    Rice best go to get a hearing test. Lets all defend the young lad, its not as if he hasn't made costly mistakes before this season, but he will learn. No its easier to blame Hart who using his experience made a simple instruction to clear the ball just like a lot of keepers do all around the leagues. ;hmm
  • ClaretandBlueforLifeClaretandBlueforLife
    SuzanneClaret said:

    The Arsen Wenger eulogy was moving.

    He’s NOT dead you say ;nonono

    Well someone needs to tell Sky ;angry

    No he is not dead, but I was sad to hear he had bowed to the enevitable; although a few seasons too late imo.
  • Slaven_Cups_His_BeardSlaven_Cups_His_Beard
    thornburyiron said:

    I don't think it matters a jot what Hart said or didn't say, Rice should have headed it away. Could you really imagine Ginge doing what he did. He'd have headed it away and then told Hart "you do your job and I'll do mine".

    Of course it matters, again what do you think happens if Hart doesn’t shout?

    I know where my money is
  • Slaven_Cups_His_BeardSlaven_Cups_His_Beard
    Fortuneseeker said:

    S_C_H_B,

    Rice best go to get a hearing test. Lets all defend the young lad, its not as if he hasn't made costly mistakes before this season, but he will learn. No its easier to blame Hart who using his experience made a simple instruction to clear the ball just like a lot of keepers do all around the leagues. ;hmm

    He has a split second to know what was said, nothing said, no problem he clears as normal.

    I’m not blaming hart 100% but people need to realize he added to the confusion

    Being around keeper coaches over the years then while some will say clear it ask questions later, others know that only keepers when the keeper wants it
  • ClaretandBlueforLifeClaretandBlueforLife
    Hart has to react as part of the team and/or individually on his own, he seems to lack either and should be gone at the end of the season.
  • thornburyironthornburyiron
    Slav I still don't think it matters. If a defender is going to rely on whether his keeper shouts of not he's not going to defend. The ball was just floating straight to him and his main priority at all times is to get the ball away from the goal.
    He's young and made a stupid mistake and hopefully he will learn from it. When I used to play many many years ago coaches always told our keepers never to shout leave it or anything which could be misconstrued. "Keepers!" was about the only thing they were told they should say. Even "mine" was not recommended as you never know who said it.
    If he thought he heard leave it then that could have been shouted by an Arsenal player which used to be deemed ungentlemanly conduct.
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    Hart has a habit of shouting 'Away!' which seems to me entirely unnecessary.

    IF he only ever shouted when he was coming for it, things would be easier for his defenders.

    All that said, in this case, Rice probably should have taken charge of the situation, and had a row later if needed.

    It's a shame for him, and a nuisance for us, but I suspect it is one of those things that will help him a lot in his career over time.

    What is to his credit, imo, is how few errors he has made, given his age and lack of experience.
  • OutcastLondonerOutcastLondoner
    Exactly. I think Hart’s shouts probably don’t help but a more experienced defender would’ve blocked it out. From his face afterwards, Rice knows that now.
  • Slaven_Cups_His_BeardSlaven_Cups_His_Beard
    Don’t disagree G man....i do think it was a key factor in a game changing moment

    For what was England’s no1 he’s got some really poor habits imo, being behind city’s defence over the years left him doing nothing a lot of the time
  • thornburyironthornburyiron
    It's kind of encouraging that after a game in which we lost 4-1 we are not discussing how appalling a display we'd seen but how a game hinged on a moment of madness by a young defender who shows all the signs of being a great, hopefully long term with us.
    However having watched City demolish Swansea which was good for us I'm not looking forward with too much relish to next Sunday. I'm expecting to lose but hope our goal difference doesn't suffer too greatly although by Sunday we may be in a much better place depending on Saturdays results.
  • YeoldhammerYeoldhammer
    we did okay, 4-1 was a harsh scoreline.

    Moyes is falling into the Bilic trap though. Same trap Allardyce fell into also. Relying on the same faces who don't cut it.

    Man City and Man Utd are going to be write offs though, we competed with a second string Arsenal who are bog standard average in my opinion. Cant see us doing anything against a First 11 Man Utd / Man City.

    Going to need something at Leicester and possibly on the last home game against Everton. Think Stoke or Southampton can drag themselves out of it. Palace have some easier games, Huddersfield look like they could fall. Swansea can get themselves free.

    I would say WBA / then 2 of, Stoke / Southampton / Huddersfield / West Ham.
  • baracks_a_hammerbaracks_a_hammer
    I do hope Declan doesn’t read this forum. Very harsh to single him out today. He’s been playing very well and showing up many of his more experienced colleagues - given his age has been magnificent and will continue to be so. There’s no guarantee they wouldn’t have gone on to win anyway.
  • FortuneseekerFortuneseeker
    It was interesting to see our own manager said Declan made a mistake. ;ok
  • buffybegoodbuffybegood
    Yeoldhammer said:

    I would say WBA / then 2 of, Stoke / Southampton / Huddersfield / West Ham.

    I'd add Swansea to those 4, I don't think they're out of it just yet.
  • thornburyironthornburyiron
    As has Arnie and some other players but they also all said he's young and everyone makes mistakes and he'll learn from it.
  • FortuneseekerFortuneseeker
    Sorry to dig him out but according to some of the earlier comments it was Hart's fault?
  • WHU_Champo_league_in_7_yearsWHU_Champo_league_in_7_years
    Baracks
    No one is digging on Rice

    He made an error which let them go ahead, hes young but the end of the day hes a pro footballer and he was at fault for the goal

    Pretty sure everyone on here has been praising him non stop all year

    Its a mistake from him, its not the first and it wont be the last but it can help him learn
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    Well thorn has mentioned Rice's error in his last 10 posts.
  • thornburyironthornburyiron
    IH I'm not sure what you're getting at. If you're saying I'm digging at him you're wrong. I said he made a mistake and he did. It was one he shouldn't have made and I doubt he'd make it again.
    If you read all of people's posts and not just the bits you want to then you'd see I said he will turn out to be a great player and hopefully it will be for us.
    However you want to cut it the fact he made the mistake won't disappear.
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    Agreed thorn but you've mentioned it in every post.
  • LukerzLukerz
    edited April 2018
    I don't understand why Hart has this fixation on constantly screaming words as if it makes him a dominant or intimidating presence on the pitch. If you want to come and get the ball, shout for it and come and get it. Failing that just come and get it and wipe out everybody in the way as you do it, don't bother calling. Players tend to deal with the ball anyway regardless of whether a keeper shouts for it. Shouting 'AWAY' for me has no real purpose. Experienced defenders know their job is to head the ball away or clear it if they are under pressure, they don't need the keeper telling them.

    Hart had no real reason to tell Rice to head it. The ball was swung in, Rice would normally attack it, but he obviously had a brain fluster at the fact he heard Hart's booming voice. To be honest it's pretty hard when he screeches to tell what he's saying, let alone differentiating between 'AWAY' or 'MINE' or whatever. He just confuses the situation. Rice, however, had he been a bit more streetwise, would've ignored his vastly experienced international colleague and just got his head on it. He'll know to do that in future and I'm sure he won't repeat that split second decision to let it go by him.

    But it's becoming more and more baffling that Hart is still between the sticks.
  • Slaven_Cups_His_BeardSlaven_Cups_His_Beard
    ^THIS^
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    I thought it was a pretty even game up until the last ten minutes, when Monreal scored Moyes made the necessary changes and we equalised.

    We didn't deserve to lose like that and Arsenal certainly didn't deserve the win. In a lot of ways it was very much like Arsenal's 3-0 win over Stoke, that was coasting to a 0-0 draw until Arsenal were awarded a penalty in the 75th minute

    So who was meant to be marking Monreal three minutes after he had a shot from almost the exact same spot?

    As for Rice, even Bobby Moore made mistakes. Did Hart shout? I've not been able to find a clear view of him in any of the highlights.
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    baracks

    I'd hope Rice did see the comments on here (or similar comments on any platform), as to me they are universally supportive.

    I don't think anyone on here has said anything that Rice wouldn't accept as fair comment, and it's not like he doesn't know he made a mistake is it?
  • chicagohammerchicagohammer
    I do not know how you eradicate individual errors, I doubt that in reality we have more than our peers, it just seems so as inevitably I watch West Ham with greater attention than other teams.

    Historically our corners and free kicks have been laughable, yesterday, I did not know how Mario can look Zabaleta in the eye, his totally abject corner directly resulted in the breakaway run where Zabaleta had little option but to launch into a tackle that inevitably resulted in a yellow.

    I fail to understand why professional footballers take so many poor corners, I played for Old Westamians, (mostly in their fifth team) and even there, if you failed to get a corner in or around the penalty spot, you could expect to be in the receiving end of some pretty fruity language.

    It completely baffles me,
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