Three At The Back - The Way Ahead?

It worked very well today and Slav has said he really likes this formation, so is this how we'll look to play from now on?

We have two natural wing-backs on both sides (Cress, Arthur, Byram and Antonio) and with three senior centre backs, plus Kouyate and Oxford, we have the players (when fit) to make it work.

It certainly made us look stronger today and I for one would like to see us perservere with it.
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Comments

  • It certainly give us a viable option - although it does make you wonder why we sold Tomkins if he was considering this, I always though in a back three he was the right choice for the R/H side.
  • Good point Adme. I guess even if Slav wanted to go with three at start of the season Tomkins wasn't guaranteed a start.

    But I agree, if we went with three, Tomkins, Reid and Ogbonna looked like the logical choice ;hmm
  • kouyate and reid outstanding, I am still unsure about Ogbonna, prefer Oxford ot Collins....will work as long as all midfield trac back like last night
  • I think it entirely depends on who we have fit / available and who the opposition are. Plus Sellhurst Park is one of the smallest pitches, can we play this formation on our larger home pitch?
  • Certainly is easier to press and play this system on a small pitch.
  • It's the space left behind the defence that's been a big issue at home. Whilst the chance of Sunderland catching us on the break and exploiting that space is slim it's still been a major issue for a us at home.
  • edited October 2016
    So it looks like:

    Adrian
    Kouyate - Reid - Ogbonna
    Antonio - Noble - Obiang - Cresswell
    Lanzini - Payet
    Ayew

    Randolph, Collins, Masuaku, Nordtveit, Fernandes, Feghouli, Carroll

    Is going to be the way forward this season. My only concern is whether 1) Kouyate will be happy to play CB all season when he's said he prefers playing midfield and 2) whether Antonio is going to knuckle down with the right attitude as a RWB.

    To be honest, Antonio is replaceable. Gone off him a bit this season. If he isn't up to it stick Byram in.
  • edited October 2016
    Lukerz - Antonio is our top scorer, a bit harsh.

    All his goals came when he was playing in a more advanced role, he obviously prefers to play further forward and it appears he plays better further forward. Playing three at the back with wing backs leaves us with only two places for attacking midfielders, in order to play Antonio in his best position we'd need to drop Lanzini or Payet and that isn't going to happen.

    Which means Antonio is playing in a position where he's less effective, he obviously knows he's better suited to playing further forward and its hardly a surprise he's less than happy with the situation.
  • Really don't get people's problem with Antonio. Works so hard every game and scores goals. Not sure why people are criticising his attitude or questioning whether he's happy. Do you want him laughing and joking during matches or actually playing football?
  • There just is something not right with him IMO.
  • He had an off game, it happens. He'll be fine next time out.
  • Lukerz,

    Not right with him in what way?
  • Tbf he does seem a little off, he still tries hard but he seems to be forcing everything whereas he used to pressure because he wanted to

    His game just doesn't suit wing back, he's too far away imo. He has further to travel to get forward and more bodies to get past.

    He struggles in that his delivery isn't great which is needed for a wing back, hence Cresswell being so good

    I love Antonio but if we are going with a wing back he isn't enjoying it and with Fernandes doing so well and Feghouli in the wings he may be in trouble
  • I think a large part of our turnaround has been that Kouyate and Reid have found form. Kouyate is a big player for us as so versatile. A part of me would have liked to play him up front as I think he would be a real handful and score goals, at present of course he seems to have plugged the leak at the back so too risky.
  • Antonios biggest strength is also his biggest weakness as well- he is fearless. The question is how its channelled within the team structure and for me, his "off form" is largely when nothing else is really happening for us, so we give to Antonio because we know he will take individual responsibility and be brave. Antonios most effective for us as a surprise element, whether it be coming in off the wing to get in the box, or over loading the left with Cresswell + Payet, to then switch play and isolate Antonio 1 v 1 with abit of space.

    Take the sunderland game, they were very defensive, deep, lots of bodies back and doubled up on him, so without Carroll or an out and out CF to occupy their CB's and create some space for our midfield centrally, Sunderland wouldnt be manipulated and could just play everything in front of them. We made lots of crosses, which werent that good, but unless the delivery is perfect Sunderland could deal with it easily simply because of how many they had back and how deep they were; all we could do is dominate possession, territory and keep going hoping for a bit of magic or lack of concentration as a result of our dominance.

    His progress since he joined us has been wonderful and has become a fans favourite in such a short period of time because of his attitude, character and personality on and off the pitch. If anything, he could just do with a game out or on the bench because he hasnt had any time off due to the england call ups (and with an out and out CF to play off as well !)
  • I feel in no doubt that Antonio didn't play well against Sunderland and his crossing in particular was woeful but like Suze I can't see any reason to start speaking in generalities about him as if Saturday's game was an indicator of a typical Antonio performance. He had an off day, he will again, who doesn't.
    I do like the 3 at the back system but that's because we have just won back to back games using it. We have good wingbacks (if Antonio is playing well) who are well suited to this style. It may well be that Slaven will pick his system determined by the players and style of the team that we are actually facing in any particular match. I think that would be the sensible way ahead.
  • v Chelsea – RFB, substituted after 53 minutes, no attempts on goal
    v Bournemouth – LW, switched to RW, scored, 4 attempts
    v Man City – RWB, switched to RW after Byram came on, scored, 1 attempt,
    v Watford - RW scored twice, 7 attempts
    v WBA – RW scored, 8 attempts
    v Saints – RW, 2 attempts
    v Boro – CF, 5 attempts
    v Palace – RWB 1 attempt
    v Sunderland – RWB, substituted after 63 minutes 1 attempt

    To state the somewhat obvious when Antonio plays WB or FB he gets fewer chances to score, its not hard to imagine why that might be frustrating and why his game has been off.

    Watching the Sunderland match there were a couple of times when Antonio got onto the far post, the sort of position he scores from, he had his arm in the air almost begging for someone to cross the ball to him, the lad wants to score and he knows he's unlikely to do so if he's asked to play deeper
  • Unfortunately for Antonio there is no right wing in the current formation

    He's a great right winger, but the team can't play well with 4 at the back

    I have faith in him, he has the right attributes just there is competition so if he can't deliver then sadly he may need to lose his place in the team

    Perhaps

    Adrian
    Kouyate Reid Ogbonna
    Fernandes Obiang Noble Cresswell
    Antonio Zaza Payet

    Risk losing Lanzini though
  • Bench Noble and put Lanzini in, be nice to have two people comfortable on the ball in the middle of the park.
  • I'd drop Noble over Lanzini but I don't think Slav will which is why I didn't do it

  • There just is something not right with him IMO.

    I said the same thing on the match thread. During the game he just didn't look interested. Which is odd because he is usually the hardest worker. Im only guessing but don't think he is happy at all at playing right back again ;hmm
  • Bench Noble and put Lanzini in, be nice to have two people comfortable on the ball in the middle of the park.

    http://www.squawka.com/teams/west-ham-united/stats

    Most Completed Passes: Mark Noble

    Mark Noble has completed 314 passes this season with a pass accuracy of 88%, of which 71% were forward passes.

    Saturday: Most passes completed in the Premier League today:

    Mark Noble (92)
    Mohamed Elneny (91)
    Francis Coquelin (80)
    Jordan Henderson (76)

    ;ok

  • But Lanzini hasn't had a chance in that position

    Sure he wouldn't disappoint and would contribute with more dribbles
  • Fernandes was fantastic going forward but he wasn't that much better in defence than Payet. Definitely wouldn't pick him as a WB again.

    If it ain't broke don't fix it. Lanzini and Payet have developed a great understanding and have formed a great partnership, the same with Noble and Obiang, they're playing well together.

    Unless Arbeloa is available then I'd stick with Antonio as RWB.
  • Bench Noble and put Lanzini in, be nice to have two people comfortable on the ball in the middle of the park.

    http://www.squawka.com/teams/west-ham-united/stats

    Most Completed Passes: Mark Noble

    Mark Noble has completed 314 passes this season with a pass accuracy of 88%, of which 71% were forward passes.

    Saturday: Most passes completed in the Premier League today:

    Mark Noble (92)
    Mohamed Elneny (91)
    Francis Coquelin (80)
    Jordan Henderson (76)

    ;ok

    And where does he rank on forward passes ? passing sideways should be easy for any player PL to Conference.
  • Every team needs a Noble. Our one had another good game on Saturday. Involved all over the pitch. I just don't get some of the anti-Noble sentiment that I seem to pick up on here. Its just wrong on so many levels.
  • Yeold, your post before suggested that he isn't comfortable on the ball?

    I thought he played really well on Saturday and links up with Dimi brilliantly. Him and Obiang are a very good partnership IMO
  • edited October 2016
    taking off the West Ham goggles, he is a hard working player, gets stuck in. But slows the game down a lot on attacks. Whether you put this down to composure because we are maybe faltering in the game and wants to wrestle back some possession to build or down to how he generally thinks when in possession of the ball is up for debate.

    Against Palace I wouldn't have put him in the top 7 or 8 players on that pitch, he was probably ahead of Payet and Antonio and at a push Zaza in that game. not saying he has to be outstanding every game but he isn't one of the top performers for me so far.

    There is also definitely a need for someone who can just spread the ball to the full backs in games where you want to slow it down say against a Man City or so to disrupt the flow and to regain some possession to calm things. But against Sunderland and Palace teams we want to be putting ourselves in their half for as much time as possible I would want someone like Lanzini sitting in that CM position driving forward and hitting those passes into Zaza or fizzing one to Antonio in a 1 on 1 with the full back, not a little pass to Obiang or a 1-2 with Kouyate where we just invite pressure then end up chucking a ball at Zaza and Payet and saying do something.
  • ;ok Twistypoos

    We were saying the same during the game.
  • Still not getting it. Noble is our best and most fluent passer of the ball and he frequently hits superb passes to either flank as well as the nice little defence splitters. Yes he will hold the game up from time to time but that is because our players aren't in good receiving positions and yes he has had a few less than good games this season but so have the rest of the team. He is also by a long way the best leader we have on the pitch. I guess you can tell I'm a bit of a Noble supporter but not to the extent that I've changed my moniker to nobleworldclass ;hmm NWC, I like it. Let me sleep on it ;bowdown
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