The Mark Noble Thread

grey_til_I_dye

This discussion was created from comments split from: Bournemouth away - Tuesday 12th 19:45 (club record matched; 1-3 win).

TheMadcapLaughs

No place for our Captain in the above teams!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Noble above anyone deserved to be Captain, but I think Bilic has made things a little awkward, as when everyone fit and on form Noble doesn`t make the starting 11. Difficult one as the team spirit and work ethic is probably better than it has been for years and that must be, to a certain extent, down to Nobles Captaincy. How does Bilic leave his Captain out.

Lukerz

Noble should not be left out for anyone.

Most technical passer.

Adrian
Tomkins - Reid - Ogbonna - Cresswell
Kouyate - Noble
Payet - Lanzini - Valencia
Sakho

Randolph, Collins, Jenkinson, Song, Obiang, Antonio, Carroll

baracks_a_hammer

Shouldn't be dropped even if performances are poor? Not sure I agree with that entirely

TheMadcapLaughs

Slaven, I agree to an extent, and I think Noble gets far more grief than he could ever possibly deserve, but to me the most exciting midfield two would be Kouyate and Obiang. I am won over by the 4-2-3-1 formation, if the three behind the striker are fast, mobile and have goals in them, pick any three from Payet, Lanzini, Valencia, Zarate, Antonio, Moses etc etc I think it can be a very attacking formation. But the midfield two need to not only cover the back four but be able to drive the team forward, IMO Kouyate (The Beast) and Obiang are better equipped than Noble at this moment in time to do this. Both look forwards first, both can carry the ball forwards (with pace) and both seem superb athletes. Noble has developed this awful tendency to perform the Parker Pirouette (which used to drive me mad). Don`t get me wrong. I`m not a Noble Knocker, I lurve Noble, but a pairing of Kouyate and Obiang looks pretty darn perfect to me. ;scarf

eskimoking

If Noble doesn't play, I personally don't think anyone would take up the mantle of getting it from the defence and playing it around, dictating the tempo. Payet et al can't come deep for it or they become ineffective. Kouyate's short passing is poor so he couldn't do it. Obiang looks like he might try but I've seen nothing to indicate his through balls or cross field passes are as good as Noble's so we would lose options. It's easy for Noble to appear to have a bad game as he takes on a huge amount of responsibility just because of his role but I really don't think some of you grasp how vital he is, even if he's below par. When he's at his best he is what makes our team tick.

woosie

Posters knocking Noble?

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

IronHerb said:

Lukerz

Most technical passer. What does that mean?

looks like he's having a Lawro moment

;lol

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

Noble does a lot of the work, running, shutting down that is very very easy to not notice.

If it comes to raw ability and technical ability, then out of Kouyate, Obiang, Song and Noble....if they were all on top of their game, he probably would lose his place

but, they never are, well Song isn't, Obiang is just breaking through and Kouyate has been injured, so he stays in the team for me.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Sorry but I don't see what's so good about nobles passing, thought obiang was by far the better passe and more aggressive passe out of the 2

And Noble got turned a lot, more than a lot against Bournemouth

I rate noble think he's a fine player but he doesn't look like he's come to life untill we are either ahead or we've just equalised

Not knocking him but fail to see what he can do that Obiang can't, and neither have kouyate ability.
I get he's the captain but look on the pitch he's not exaclty a screamer. Why do we turn it around at half time not during the match, it's because Slaven inspires them not noble

grey_til_I_dye

For comparison, some game average stats from Squawka re: passing and tackling between Nobes and Obiang

Lukerz

IronHerb said:

Lukerz

Most technical passer. What does that mean?

;puzzled

As in he's far superior to Song, Kouyate and Obiang when he has the ball at his feet.

IronHerb

If tu say so ;hmm

TwistandShout

Lukerz, agreed ;ok

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

grey_til_I_dye said:

For comparison, some game average stats from Squawka re: passing and tackling between Nobes and Obiang

Well that's quite useless you've filtered it for avg per game and Obiang has clearly played far less minutes per game than noble

Nobles played an extra 6 games acvording to that but has played over twice as many minutes

Expat_Hammer

Champ7 - maybe substitute appearances count as 1 game, but not 90 minutes ;puzzled

grey_til_I_dye

Champo

You are free to do your own comparison, with any metrics you like.

As to 'useless' - well that's your opinion.

These are the per 90 metrics



If you find these useless too, then I suggest you ignore them or go to Squawka and find some that suit you.

eskimoking

Grey, to be fair, champo had a point on the per appearance. But you can't dispute those ones.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

I just feel it's unfair saying Noble is better because of statistics when it's known that most of obiangs minutes came from off the bench when we need to shut up shop/kill the game etc so his statistics are always going to be lower simple as

grey_til_I_dye

Champo

I didn't say anything about the players, or what I thought the statistics showed. I provided them as a courtesy to try to inform the conversation.

Statistics are simply facts in numerical form.

They need to be interpreted, but they are, nevertheless, facts, and are a tad more reliable ( or at least more informative and accurate) than 'well, I reckon', imo.

You said:

thought obiang was by far the better passe and more aggressive passe out of the 2

that is obviously your impression, but it isn't obviously borne out by the available statistics.

eskimoking

Fair comment champo and we all see things differently. The split on Noble I think is baffling to everyone on both sides as there are some very strong views either way and clearly people just aren't going to converge on it.

For me, I think he's the best passer we have in CM. He's good at the simple stuff, he's good at the sensible stuff but he's also our best at switching play. Some of his long passes to Payet against Bournemouth were fantastic. He is also capable of a cracking through ball, but doesn't do it as often as he perhaps should.

It's not just the passing though, it's being available for the pass. Very often he is our only option for the other players, which is why he tops the most passes stat every season, because he shows for it more than the others, he wants it more. Until I see someone else regularly want that responsibility, he's our best deep lying playmaker for me.

baracks_a_hammer

Because he's the deepest midfielder surely he is less likely to be marked and therefore naturally be more likely to be available to pass to?

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

That's why I don't think that statistics are a great representation of how you've played

eskimoking

But he's not always the deepest midfielder at all. Hence the calls for Kouyate to play further forwards. When 3 DMs have played, Noble is usually the furthest forward. When it's 2 DMs he is next to the other one. They could come deep if they wanted to.

grey_til_I_dye

Champo

I don't think stats necessarily show how a player has played in a specific match either.

However, they can be useful when examining specific claims about a player's strengths or weaknesses.

For example, every pundit I've heard in recent weeks points out that Liverpool aren't using Benteke properly, that he is a beast in the air and that they need to get high balls in to the box. I mean, everyone knows that, right?

Except, he has scored 48 PL goals, of which only 14 (just under 30%) have been headers.

The vast majority of his goals have come inside the 18 yard box, so perhaps they should be working out how to get the ball to his feet in those situations?

Stats aren't the be all and end all of anything, but, imo, neither are they pointless.

Lukerz

Also great to see somebody has finally realised that Nobes is no good at corners and free-kicks.

I've seen Payet, Lanzini, Valencia, Zarate and Cresswell all take set-plays ahead of him this season.

IronHerb

So he's not a 'technical' crosser then? ;wink

;ok

Lukerz

Knew that was coming ;lol

IronHerb

;lol

baracks_a_hammer

Beat me to it herb - how can you be a fine technical passer but not be able to cross the ball? ;hmm

Lukerz

Completely different skills.

Tbh, I don't think Nobes is a bad set-play taker. It was more the 'floaty' nature he was instructed to take them.

baracks - so you don't believe Nobes is out best passer in CM? ;hmm