Paqueta Charged (Catastrophise here!)

ASLEFshrugged

Apparently The Times claims Paqueta will be available "until the disciplinary process has been completed" which won't be until close to the end of the season or perhaps after

I don't have a Times subscription but if anyone does maybe they could confirm this

https://www.thetimes.com/sport/football/article/lucas-paqueta-play-west-ham-spot-fixing-charges-hdkcp7h7p

claretandbluesky

This is taking longer than some quite complex criminal cases to come to completion. I wonder if it's due to them not having the power to seize devices or access to electronic records that the police would and not quite knowing how to proceed without them. This is all conjecture but possibly they know what's happened as it's quite clear from bets placed and their location but can't gather the evidence to prove it, and yet are hoping to secure a conviction on suspicion alone rather than accept they are powerless to enforce their own rules.

If they are really determined they may convict on suspicion so he sues them and he will then be obliged to release the records needed to prove his innocence.

I hope his head is in the right place for the start of the new season.

MrsGrey

His representatives say he is co-operating fully. I assume that means he has given the FA (or whoever) access to his messages... otherwise I'm sure there would have been public comment pushing back on the claim of cooperation?

IronHerb

I cant see him being found guilty on a hunch or in the hope he will sue them to find out the truth. If found guilty he will probably appeal to CAS.

MrsGrey

It seems like it has been dragging on, but he was only charged in May.

Yeoldhammer

It will be interesting to see if he actually comes back to the UK.

IronHerb

Yeoldhammer said:

It will be interesting to see if he actually comes back to the UK.

Why wouldn't he?

alderz

IronHerb said:

Yeoldhammer said:

It will be interesting to see if he actually comes back to the UK.

Why wouldn't he?

There’s still reporting that he wants to sign for Flamengo, and suggestion that any ban from the FA may not be upheld in Brazil. I guess if those things are true (and I take them with a fistful of salt) he might not come back and just stay there to try and force the move.

IronHerb

Won't have long to find out. He's due back on the 29th/30th July, maybe join up in America.

Ravel49

DAILY MAIL

Lucas Paqueta is reportedly being hit with two more charges by the FA in his betting case which could see him thrown out of the sport for life.

thornburyiron

I think these relate to his not being compliant with requests for info. Apparently they had his phone for a time and returned it to him but subsequently requested it again but he had destroyed it or claimed he didn’t know where it was.
The two charges are obstructing and not cooperating with the investigation.

MunichHammer

If they had his phone then it'stheir job to take everything they need from it or even make a copy of its contence. If they didn't do that and give it back, bad luck.

OutcastLondoner

Did he drop it off a boat?

claretandbluesky

They may find it hard to make these new two come to anything if they cannot prove the main charge, especially after being handed his phone initially. They are complaining about the limitation of their powers as they rely upon the cooperation of the player as opposed to the police who can seize devices.

I read this playing out a few possible ways

They prove the case against him on the main charge, meaning these latest two become pretty irrelevant anyhow and ban him for as long as they choose.

After initially having his device they can't prove the main charge but punish him for the lesser charge which cannot carry anything like the sentence for the main charge.

They realise they cannot prove the main charge and have brought these new ones as a PR exercise to place into the publics mind what many of us probably feel anyhow,which is that he probably was involved with something but it's hard to prove and they have found they can't do so.

I think this development is good news for him as I don't see them bringing a non cooperation charge if they are confident they can prove the main charge, I think it suggests they know they can't.

thornburyiron

The two new charges are merely two breaches of one of the FA rules relating to refusing to cooperate with the enquiry. I would imagine after 9 months of investigating they would feel they have sufficient to proceed or they would have dropped the case.
The club have hired the lawyer who got Leicester off their points deduction to defend him.
However it pans out we will have him for the rest of this season and hopefully he starts to show more of what we know he can do. I think his drop in form coincided with the point at which it came out that his family members had paid a large sum to a well known foreign player who was guilty or suspected of some corruption.

chicagohammer

Whatever he may or not have done to best protect himself, it reeeaallly does not look great, it certainly does not sit right with me, not that I expect he cares about that one jot

Ho hum

MrsGrey

'It does not look great '

'it does not sit right:

Let's just imagine, for a moment, that he is totally innocent.

Start from there. It is just as likely to be true as any alternative scenario. The current evidence is open to interpretation
So, go on.
Then what?

buffybegood

Of course it's possible he's totally innocent, but personally, from everything I've read so far, it seems extremely unlikely imo. What can be proven is another matter, although unfortunately, from my understanding, the hearing doesn't require court of law levels of proof to find him guilty. I suspect the full story won't come out for many years, if ever, but personally I find it very hard to believe that he's completely innocent. Duped maybe, foolish probably, but completely innocent, I just don't see it personally.

chicagohammer

Okay, let me try that……...thinking……..re-reading……..thinking again…..nope sorry I have to conclude that for me the probability of him being totally innocent as being “just as likely as any alternative scenario” stretches credibility to breaking point….granted not impossible, but imo, highly improbable

buffybegood

Paqueta complaining about leaks of information about the case and how it might impact on getting a fair hearing:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c0qzxxlxqpeo

claretandbluesky

On current performances I can see someone from the club turning witness against him.

ASLEFshrugged

The Sun reckons Paqueta will miss Leicester away (Tues £ Dec) as he will be giving evidence to the Brazilian parliament

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/31438038/lucas-paqueta-premier-league-betting-west-ham-fa/

Lukerz

I think this can explain some of his abject performances this season. There must be a lot going on behind the scenes, legal discussions, complying with the authorities, concerns about his involvement & his families, knowing a guilty verdict would end his career (obviously this is heightened if he knows he is guilty, but we know his stance is he isn’t).

It may be worth just taking him out the 11 for a while.

buffybegood

Lukerz said:

I think this can explain some of his abject performances this season. There must be a lot going on behind the scenes, legal discussions, complying with the authorities, concerns about his involvement & his families, knowing a guilty verdict would end his career (obviously this is heightened if he knows he is guilty, but we know his stance is he isn’t).

It may be worth just taking him out the 11 for a while.

Tbh, his performances of late don't warrant a place, certainly not in the starting 11; undoutedly all what's going on is having some effect on him.

buffybegood

Apparently his uncle refused to answer questions for the hearing yesterday. Also, he seems to have made payments to the other player linked in the investigation (Luiz Henrique, then at Real Betis). To me, this looks worse and worse for Paqueta.

Btw, here's the missing "b" from my post above 😂🤣😂.