Match Thread - Away to Man U on Saturday 22nd January, 15:00

OldCastleSwift

To be fair Mrs G, there's very little evidence offered for most of what's said on here; it's mostly opinion.

And in Thorn's defence, it's not entirely inconceivable that Antonio has one eye on the Jamaica games. He obviously wants to play international football and maybe, just maybe, knowing that he's unlikely to be subbed off, he was holding something back today so as not to injure himself just before his international commitments.

thornburyiron

Mrs G I was joking.

MrsGrey

But opinion based on real things ... Be that the evidence of our eyes or other facts. Yet how many posters today and in previous matches were saying Antonio had run himself into the ground and was knackered.

How many people offering opinions as to players' motivation actually watched the match?

I take your point about opinion, but it is at least usually rooted in something observed, rather than being purely speculative.

And especially if the speculation is derogatory or insulting, I think we should perhaps expect a bit more justification.

It's a Scummy tabloid tactic to day something like ' this will raise questions about xyz' when in fact it is they who are raising it and giving it legitimacy. On the basis of nothing.

MrsGrey

thornburyiron said:

Mrs G I was joking.

Ok, fair enough.

Things in print don't always come across how they might in speech.

Maybe use an emoji to make it clearer? ;-)

thornburyiron

I keep forgetting emojis in the same way I keep using letters in wordle I already know aren’t there. As I’m in my mid 70’s and have been supporting West Ham for 70 of those it’s a wonder I can remember who I am

claretandbluesky

Good to see Zouma come through 90 minutes. The first match match back is always a worry as they can train but it's not the same as the rigours of a competitive match. I think he gives confidence to those around him.

EXETERHAMMER

The first match this season that I haven't watched in its entirety. Glad I didn't as it sounded dull and somewhat frustrating. That was the team I so wanted to beat.
We move on, and I do believe we will strengthen our squad by the end of the window.
This has been an outstanding 12 months watching West Ham so I am trying not to be disappointed. COYI

Huttonhammer

Last week Harrison had only ever scored 1 goal in a game in over 100 games. He scores 3 against us . Gallagher scored 2 against us ! Southampton scored 3 against us and won when they could hardly score or win a game. Yesterday Rashford who in many games I have seen him play for a while now never looks interested and looks fed up . According to match of the day he comes on for 15 minutes and he looks back to his old self!!
West Ham never seem to do their homework on players and many sides or players seem to kickstart their season whenever they play us. Why?

Lukerz

I take the positives from the game which were, with Zouma back, we looked far more solid. I don’t remember one moment where we were worried about them scoring before the goal. Ultimately, the goal came down to two errors; Fredericks header & Cresswell not stepping up to play Cavani offside. Our problem is not scoring goals, so I know in the weeks to come we will continue to hit the back of the net but, after yesterday, I am far more confident of clean sheets.

Huttonhammer

The goal came from not holding the ball when it went forward . We should have run the clock down . We have given away many late goals due to naivety. It shouldn’t be happening at this level .

Lukerz

When people say we’re going to slide down the league, yes maybe we are. We have come a hell of a long way in under two years. When people say ‘if we don’t get top four we lose Rice’, well maybe we do. We can’t be something we’re not. If we aren’t a top four side yet, we’re not a top four side yet. If that means we get £100m to invest after one of our better players goes, so be it. Ironically, we still have a chance of two cups & Champions League qualification through one of those.

We’re a good side, but there are many good sides in this league. Man Utd, Arsenal, Spurs, Wolves, Leicester. All those sides have shown consistency when compared to us. Even Wolves have been in the top 8 for a couple of seasons since promotion & tend to beat us more than we beat them.

We have a nice break now to bring a couple of players in. I think we all agree we need a couple of players. We then face Kidderminster & Watford. That’s a chance to get back to winning ways. We’ll also have Benrahma back to add to the mix & hopefully Fabianksi.

This side is where it is. Yes, it’s frustrating when you see no players come in to strengthen the side to push on & suffer a last minute loss. We did ok yesterday & defended well but just lacked that quality/belief that we could beat Utd at their place. Not sure why. That’s for Moyes to sort.

Expat_Hammer

Hamstew said:

Just a question ..... but shouldn't the head count as being offside as it is a scoring part of the body, or is that only applicable to non sky 6 sides

PrestonHammer

Unfortunately his head looks in line, if you go by the purple line.

Lukerz

Again, a bit annoying that we end up in the last seconds of a game & it’s 3 v 3 in our box. No CM in the box to help & no Soucek in sight.

Lukerz

It’s onside. Cresswell just needed to step up. No need for him to be that deep.

jay_in_cpt

Sometimes we don’t respect the point 🏃⚒️⚒️⚒️

Huttonhammer

Just for clarification on the offside.
If it had been a West Ham player in the VAR check at old Trafford. They would taken half an hour and they would have looked at every angle possible using a magnifying glass and then disallowed it . Var is badly misused and has taken a lot of joy out of the game for me.

Dodger58

My daughter's Man U supporting boyfriend told me he would have been very annoyed if that had been given against West Ham. I've only seen the picture above so far, but it does appear the well known bias continues ...

OldCastleSwift

Looking at the goal again, which I've forced myself to do this morning, I really feel like Cresswell needs to do more. Yes, Fredericks' defending was hopeless (a stray header and then diving in on the forward), but that would've been inconsequential if Cresswell has an ounce of awareness about him.

Two games running now we've conceded a goal where he has no idea what's going on around him. Harrison got in behind from a corner in the Leeds game, and yesterday he seemed to have no idea that Rashford was even there.

Having played as a defender, albeit at an obviously much lower level, so much of your game is being aware of what's around you. It's what makes Rice so good. I remember it being mentioned a couple of seasons ago how much Rice is always looking over his shoulder, both in and out of position, so I made a point of watching him in the next few games. He's constantly making himself aware of what's around him, which is why he wins and retains possession so well. Cresswell really needs to learn from this.

alderz

Completely agree. I just saw the goal again, and Cresswell slows down and puts his hand up when Martial played in Cavani. Rashford just bombs to the back post. If Cresswell doesn’t stop, he gets to the ball first. He might end up sticking it into his own goal, but we’ll never know.

BubblesNeverDies

Lukerz said:

Ultimately, the goal came down to two errors; Fredericks header & Cresswell not stepping up to play Cavani offside.

I think you also have to include the ball from Lanzini to Dawson and his lumped-up ball to Bowen.

IronHerb

The goal was onside. It's as clear as day so I don't understand the angst. The conspiracy theories are laughable.

OutcastLondoner

The same mistakes are made by both of our left backs. I remember Cresswell doing this in the past, letting someone drift in behind. He does it less than Masuaku but it’s annoying this happens so much with low crosses from the other side.

Ben Johnson is actually the full back I trust the most defensively right now.

jay_in_cpt

OutcastLondoner said:

The same mistakes are made by both of our left backs. I remember Cresswell doing this in the past, letting someone drift in behind. He does it less than Masuaku but it’s annoying this happens so much with low crosses from the other side.

Ben Johnson is actually the full back I trust the most defensively right now.

Pity Moyes doesn’t seem to 👍🏻

Lukerz

I think Johnson is the one who can feel real hard done by this season. Was part of the side that was playing the best football of the season, got injured, came back & was asked to play CB, LWB or LB. Now lost his place now Cresswell is back.

Based on what I have seen this season, Johnson should be our starting RB. I think Coufal has been really off it this season.

OutcastLondoner

Johnson’s main weakness is in attack, which is a bit unusual for young English full backs. He’s pretty solid defensively. He could cross better.

But I’ve also always thought that for as much as he gets forward, Coufal’s crossing isn’t that great either and especially this season. I’d like to see Johnson have a spell at right back with encouragement to cross it in and hopefully they can work on his delivery.

OldCastleSwift

I think he would have had a good run at RB, but then Cresswell got injured so he had to shift to LB, Coufal came back in at RB and then because Johnson unsurprisingly struggled a bit out of position, Cresswell came straight back in when fit. Johnson, through no fault of his own, now finds himself back on the bench.

Like Outcast says, Johnson's weakness is in the final third. He seems to lack the confidence to really bomb on and his crossing needs improving. Our other flank suffers from the opposite problem. What we need are fullbacks with Johnson's defensive nous and Cresswell's attacking threat.

alderz

re: the goal, and apportioning blame. Bowen needs to take some as he lost the ball so, so easily when it came into him. Yes, the ball wasn’t great, but he tried to skin his man instead of just trapping it.

PrestonHammer

I've slept on it but I've still got the hump.

IronHerb

We'll start calling you Quasimodo soon if this carries on. 😉