Hornets 🐝 v Hammers ⚒ - Tuesday 28th, 3pm

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

I don't even know if it's that we've missed Soucek's goals. We've scored 34 this season, bettered only by the top three.

More importantly I think we've lost Declan's defensive cover. I'd like to see him sitting with the two CBs until we get some decent CBs back.

FlorinRaduclious

I do think we have also suffered from not resting Soucek or Rice at all really. I thought Noble was good today. Kral, in the little I've seen of him appears decent defensively. We must let them play more against the relegation teams to let our main two get some time off, I think we can cope - and if necessary bring them on.

FlorinRaduclious

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes said:

I don't even know if it's that we've missed Soucek's goals. We've scored 34 this season, bettered only by the top three.

More importantly I think we've lost Declan's defensive cover. I'd like to see him sitting with the two CBs until we get some decent CBs back.

Again, looking at the two seasons after 19 games:
20/21... For: 27... Against: 22... Difference: 5... Total Points: 32
21/22... For: 34... Against: 25... Difference: 9... Total Points: 31

I definitely agree that Dec is better defensively than Soucek and turns over play more regularly. However, his driving runs have added an extra element to our game. It's a tough issue to work out - however, how great to have two such excellent players to be thinking about!

OldCastleSwift

Where's the Palace thread Lukerz? We're all waiting to see what emoji you use for them. I kniw Ham will have a suggestion, but it'll probably be modded.

EXETERHAMMER

With regard the Rice/Soucek situation there is absolutely no doubt that Rice is a better defensive cover and Soucek is more likely to get goals with his runs into the box. Rice has to sit deeper more often therefore to allow Soucek to get forward. Simple.

jay_in_cpt

EXETERHAMMER said:

With regard the Rice/Soucek situation there is absolutely no doubt that Rice is a better defensive cover and Soucek is more likely to get goals with his runs into the box. Rice has to sit deeper more often therefore to allow Soucek to get forward. Simple.

And if he don't want to do this...He then thinks he's bigger than the team....let's hope not....

EXETERHAMMER

If Rice thinks he is better than this, he should think again. Wherever he goes he will be asked to play a defensive role. He will not be expected to get forward and score.

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

Nice stat from the BBC re Moyes.

OldCastleSwift

EXETERHAMMER said:

With regard the Rice/Soucek situation there is absolutely no doubt that Rice is a better defensive cover and Soucek is more likely to get goals with his runs into the box. Rice has to sit deeper more often therefore to allow Soucek to get forward. Simple.

Given our situation at the back, I'd actually be tempted to put Rice at CB, play Kral as the midfield anchor and allow Soucek to push on. Could solve a couple of issues in the short-term.

Yeoldhammer

EXETERHAMMER said:

If Rice thinks he is better than this, he should think again. Wherever he goes he will be asked to play a defensive role. He will not be expected to get forward and score.

Not true any top 6 club would want him to be a more box to box not just a static DM.

buffybegood

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes said:

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes said:

Nice stat from the BBC re Moyes.

I thought that was for Lukerz

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

OldCastleSwift said:

Where's the Palace thread Lukerz? We're all waiting to see what emoji you use for them. I kniw Ham will have a suggestion, but it'll probably be modded.

Joke that there’s still no thread. I’m going to KUMB.

PrestonHammer

Jorderz trying to be alderz hahaha

Dodger58

I’d like to see Soucek, Rice and Kral. We may lose a ball player, but we’d have a lot of drive and energy. We can then rotate the ball players getting them to play at higher tempo for 60 mins and then swapping out the two least effective/tired out! Clearly, I am thinking of Benrahma, Lanzini, Fornals, Vlasic, Bowen. With Micky as the focus, but hopefully another to rival him, or more chance for the youngsters occasionally.

Lukerz

Soucek was so much better today without Rice. We really need to get Declan under control, instead of allowing him to dictate how he plays so he looks better to potential buyers.

OldCastleSwift

Lukerz said:

Soucek was so much better today without Rice. We really need to get Declan under control, instead of allowing him to dictate how he plays so he looks better to potential buyers.

You seem to have an anti-Rice vibe at the moment Lukerz. I don't think he's playing to an audience; I think he's doing what Moyes has asked of him. He really just doesn't strike me as someone who would play for himself to the detriment of the team or his manager's instruction.

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

Yeah, I agree. Not sure there's any reason to think Rice is calling any shots.

Moyes himself kept saying last year that he thinks Declan could and should score goals, so it feels like the boss has been pushing him to improve his forward play.

Slacker

Lukerz said:

Soucek was so much better today without Rice. We really need to get Declan under control, instead of allowing him to dictate how he plays so he looks better to potential buyers.

Eh?

Lukerz

Well that went down well…

I think Soucek has got a lot of harsh criticism this season which I think has been unfair (not on here) & I find it unfair that he gets criticised for being asked to perform a different role when Declan gets given more freedom. If Dec wants to play that buccaneering role, great, but he needs to do more than 1 PL goal & also chip in with assists. The few times Soucek goes forward he gets goals & shots away. I think Soucek can consider himself very hard done by when you consider he got 10 goals from midfield last season. There needs to be more give & take in that partnership.

I do think this aspect of Dec’s development is influenced by his future ambitions. I don’t have any evidence for this, but I remember reading an interview from him & the tone was something like ‘if you want to play at the highest level, you need to influence games at the other end of the pitch’. If he wants to bomb forward, fine, but you need to knock in goals & make influential passes that lead to goals. Not just bomb up, so a few nice spins & ultimately check back. He is an outstanding player, but a bit more selflessness is needed.

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

Lukerz,

I still think he’s doing exactly what the manager is telling him to do. He doesn’t get to decide how much he wants to sit or bomb forward. Why would he?

MrsGrey

Jorderz
He's not a maverick. Moyes wouldn't stand for that.

Lukerz

No I don’t for one minute think Rice is going against Moyes. But Rice is getting forward regularly & Soucek isn’t. Rice is a phenomenal player. Ball-winner, great control, range of passing, forward passing, physical, good tackler, reading of the game. Let’s not try & force him to be a Lampard type player, which is what I think he wants to become, a goal-scoring/creative CM. He’s not. He’s a CM who will chip in with maybe 3-5 goals a season but his overall game is to dominate that middle area of the pitch & get forward at times but mainly patrol that middle third & ensure we don’t get caught defensively. Soucek’s game is to be a presence in all three areas of the pitch, defending, attacking/scoring & helping out in the middle area. Our play should not be reliant on Declan bursting on a 30 yard run & Soucek sitting back.

Dodger58

I went to the Hornets Forum and liked their Launch Post for this match, a couple of ‘inappropriate’ comments, so don’t follow the link if you think you’ll be offended. https://wfcforums.com/index.php?threads/watford-1-west-ham-4-28-12-21.58998/

One of the first comments after this is: “ I just hope Trevor Brooking isn’t fit for this one. ”

Good to see their fans are keeping a sense of humour …

Lukerz

How did that Watford CB get away with no booking yesterday? Shambles.

Hamstew

Dodger58 said:

I went to the Hornets Forum and liked their Launch Post for this match, a couple of ‘inappropriate’ comments, so don’t follow the link if you think you’ll be offended. https://wfcforums.com/index.php?threads/watford-1-west-ham-4-28-12-21.58998/

One of the first comments after this is: “ I just hope Trevor Brooking isn’t fit for this one. ”

Good to see their fans are keeping a sense of humour …

Launch post
"their fans are a dangerous combination of toddler and Ape".

Comment
"Spam were disappointing today, Southampton deserved....."

Lol

OutcastLondoner

Lukerz said:

How did that Watford CB get away with no booking yesterday? Shambles.

That really irritated me, especially as he was then giving fouls against Antonio. The elbow into the back one was awful.

Lukerz

He spent the whole game trying to obstruct Antonio, constantly playing the man & not the ball. Ref just let him get away with it constantly. The cherry on top was the needless shove into Antonio, which then caused Antonio to give away a foul for a collision. Ref watched the whole incident & awarded them a foul.

Fortuneseeker

Jonathan Pearce on MOTD summed it up with something like "that has to be a free kick to West Ham & they won't be happy if something comes from this". One of very few commentators who actually have an opinion on incidents and just don't sit on the fence.

Lukerz

Anybody notice the two incidents where Moyes & Bowen had pop at both CBs for not heading the ball? One was after the disallowed 3rd (Moyes to Diop) & other other in the last 10 minutes where Bowen got back to block a cross out for a corner after Dawson let the ball bounce just before. There were so many incidents yesterday where both of them let the ball bounce.