Other teams' games through December 2021 and New Year 2022

whupathman

klopp will go mad at the end of this game

Dodger58

From the League perspective a draw is better for us

epsom_bubbles

I thought VAR was supposed to bring consistency and fairness to the game, but if the refs are inconsistent about referring to VAR......what is the point.

whupathman

top3 out of touch so the fewer points folk around us get the better

claretandbluesky

The premiership has some of the best players in the world but some of the worst referee's, bringing the game into disrepute themselves now week after week, even though they have more tools at their disposal than ever before.

Kuchinghammer

VAR officials should have to justify their decisions at the time. Then they might be more consistent. Refs likewise, after the match. At the moment, everyone is baffled. And angry.

Slacker

MrsGrey said:

This is actually a great game for the ...

Yup if only I could be “ neutral “ when Tottenham are playing.
Was a terrific game though.
Had the lot didn’t it? Goals, VAR, dodgy ref,harum scarum goalkeeping and two sending offs….. oh wait….

OldCastleSwift

Seeing the Klopp interview, I'm torn. On the one hand I can't stand his constant griping when Liverpool drop points, but on the other he's absolutely right in this instance.

Kane should have been off. I don't see how anyone can claim otherwise. But both the ref and, more worrying, VAR saw otherwise. Now to me that means either gross incompetence or something worse, and much more sinister.

What we've seen from officials over the years, and particularly over the last few weeks, makes me seriously lean towards the latter.

Expat_Hammer

OCS,

It's clear from the slow motion replays that it was the England captain, so the right decision in the end

alderz

Pre VAR, every single time there was a dodgy decision you had ex-pros saying “it’s obvious he never played the game” about referees, but none of them were ever interested in becoming refs themselves.

Now we have VAR, I don’t understand why there’s been no trial of like a panel of a few ex-players sitting in the VAR box for the game. I know there might be accusations of some bias depending on who it was (no Carragher on Liverpool games!) but we surely need to try something new.

BubblesNeverDies

Kane interview:
"At the time, I thought it was a good strong tackle," he told BBC Sport. "Maybe it looks a little worse when you slow it down. That's what VAR is there for [to make the right decision].

"There are going to be strong tackles in a game like this. I wasn't worried. I was quite surprised [to be booked] to be honest."

ASLEFshrugged

claretandbluesky said:

The premiership has some of the best players in the world but some of the worst referee's, bringing the game into disrepute themselves now week after week, even though they have more tools at their disposal than ever before.

I've not seen enough of refereeing in other countries, are Bundesliga, La Liga and Serie A referees better?

OldCastleSwift

alderz said:

Pre VAR, every single time there was a dodgy decision you had ex-pros saying “it’s obvious he never played the game” about referees, but none of them were ever interested in becoming refs themselves.

Now we have VAR, I don’t understand why there’s been no trial of like a panel of a few ex-players sitting in the VAR box for the game. I know there might be accusations of some bias depending on who it was (no Carragher on Liverpool games!) but we surely need to try something new.

I've always been a fan of this idea, but it would still be subjective. On the Coufal penalty instance, for example, you had two ex-pros in the TalkSport studio (Dean Saunders and Jason Cundy) and one said it was a penalty and the other didn't. Replicate that in Stockwell Park and you're no better off than we are now.

Granted, you'd hope that Cundy wouldn't be allowed anywhere near anything official because he's bad enough a pundit, let alone an decision maker, but the point remains. I mean, even our own manager backed the decision, whereas Alan Shearer was very vocal about how bad the call was.

So in theory you'd hope the right decision would be made more often than not with ex-pros involved, but I fear there'd still be enough disagreement and subjectivity to make a mess of it.

MrsGrey

OldCastleSwift said:

How did that Liverpool goal stand? Surely because it hit Salah's hand it has to be ruled out?

No - accidental, and this season's guidelines means goal can stand.

alderz

OldCastleSwift said:

alderz said:

Pre VAR, every single time there was a dodgy decision you had ex-pros saying “it’s obvious he never played the game” about referees, but none of them were ever interested in becoming refs themselves.

Now we have VAR, I don’t understand why there’s been no trial of like a panel of a few ex-players sitting in the VAR box for the game. I know there might be accusations of some bias depending on who it was (no Carragher on Liverpool games!) but we surely need to try something new.

I've always been a fan of this idea, but it would still be subjective. On the Coufal penalty instance, for example, you had two ex-pros in the TalkSport studio (Dean Saunders and Jason Cundy) and one said it was a penalty and the other didn't. Replicate that in Stockwell Park and you're no better off than we are now.

Granted, you'd hope that Cundy wouldn't be allowed anywhere near anything official because he's bad enough a pundit, let alone an decision maker, but the point remains. I mean, even our own manager backed the decision, whereas Alan Shearer was very vocal about how bad the call was.

So in theory you'd hope the right decision would be made more often than not with ex-pros involved, but I fear there'd still be enough disagreement and subjectivity to make a mess of it.

In my mind, the way to make it work is to have maybe 3 ex-pros see the footage, and get to basically vote on the outcome. They aren't speaking to each other during the game, they just basically vote on the outcome of each decision.

If 2 or more agree with the on field decision, nothing happens.
If 2 of the 3 disagree with the on field decision, the referee then has to go to the monitor.
If all of them disagree with the on field decision, it is overturned.

EDIT: I would also hope that the outrageous opinions of people like Jason Cundy or Chris Sutton or Gabby Agbonlahor are more bombastic than their true opinions because they are trying to stay in the public eye. But yes, I agree you'd need to vet out the maniac ones.

BubblesNeverDies

Can Kane's yellow card not be upgraded to a red since the VAR made a clear and obvious error?
Just as a red card can be overturned on appeal, why shouldn't a too lenient punishment be corrected.
I'm not saying that each game should be refereed retrospectively, but there are definitely instances (like this one) that deserve it.

Fortuneseeker

The PGMOL should give Mr Tierney a rest but it won’t really register with anyone as it looks like there will be no games on this week due to the serious health concerns.

OutcastLondoner

Having a council of ex pros making decisions might make the whole process longer though, which I definitely don’t want. To be honest I’m not sure there are enough ex pros who don’t have stupid opinions. It certainly couldn’t be any of the ones who we have commentating.

alderz

OutcastLondoner said:

Having a council of ex pros making decisions might make the whole process longer though, which I definitely don’t want. To be honest I’m not sure there are enough ex pros who don’t have stupid opinions. It certainly couldn’t be any of the ones who we have commentating.

What if they just let me do it instead? I'll decide for them.

OldCastleSwift

alderz said:

OutcastLondoner said:

Having a council of ex pros making decisions might make the whole process longer though, which I definitely don’t want. To be honest I’m not sure there are enough ex pros who don’t have stupid opinions. It certainly couldn’t be any of the ones who we have commentating.

What if they just let me do it instead? I'll decide for them.

Jorderz will want in. And I think we all know how that ends.

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

OldCastleSwift said:

alderz said:

OutcastLondoner said:

Having a council of ex pros making decisions might make the whole process longer though, which I definitely don’t want. To be honest I’m not sure there are enough ex pros who don’t have stupid opinions. It certainly couldn’t be any of the ones who we have commentating.

What if they just let me do it instead? I'll decide for them.

Jorderz will want in. And I think we all know how that ends.

I would basically vote for the opposite of whatever Alderz says. That's usually a sensible approach.

alderz

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes said:

OldCastleSwift said:

alderz said:

OutcastLondoner said:

Having a council of ex pros making decisions might make the whole process longer though, which I definitely don’t want. To be honest I’m not sure there are enough ex pros who don’t have stupid opinions. It certainly couldn’t be any of the ones who we have commentating.

What if they just let me do it instead? I'll decide for them.

Jorderz will want in. And I think we all know how that ends.

I would basically vote for the opposite of whatever Alderz says. That's usually a sensible approach.

Ok, so we need a third

IronHerb

If you were to have a committee of three then any decision would have to be unanimous.

alderz

IronHerb said:

If you were to have a committee of three then any decision would have to be unanimous.

I think to overturn you'd need a consensus, yes. But if 2/3 say one thing, then there should be enough doubt for a ref to go and look at the screen

Expat_Hammer

Hamstew - No penalty, it's a pen@lty instead

BubblesNeverDies

Expat, don't start th@t again - oh wait.

MrsGrey

Crikey, that Liverpool side for the Caribou Cup.

alderz

Squad numbers add up to 760

MrsGrey

Brentford pretty much out. Leicester leading Liverpool and should win, but Liverpool can always get a list minute goal I suppose. Ref might help them out.

OldCastleSwift

MrsGrey said:

Brentford pretty much out. Leicester leading Liverpool and should win, but Liverpool can always get a list minute goal I suppose. Ref might help them out.

You've inherited the magic!