Burnley @ Turf Moor, Sunday @ 2

ASLEFshrugged

Burnley are now joint Premier League draw kings with Brighton, 8 in 15

Lukerz

We did more than enough to win but what frustrates me is our forward players seem to not fire more than they do, at the moment.

Wolves 1-0 West Ham
Man City 2-1 West Ham
West Ham 1-1 Brighton
Burnley 0-0 West Ham

Ok we got 3 against Chelsea which is great but 4 of the last 5 league games we have really struggled to create/score.

Slacker

Just in from a looooong day.
Great turn out from our fans again.
Very poor, scrappy performances from both sides first half but I thought we were much better 2nd half and should’ve won it.
Bowen was my MOM , Antonio just had an off day and Declan was well, just Declan really.

yoyo

Slacker, I applaud you yet again. Not the greatest of journeys ( I've done it ) and not the greatest result but still positive, rather than the "end is neigh." it was never going to be easy, a point gained against a difficult, negative team. I don't like Burnley but they know their Limitations and do what they do best.

claretandbluesky

I did not get to watch the match live but have just seen the highlights. I can't believe VAR didn't give a penalty. The Burnley player knows it's a penalty and puts his head in his hands. If the question is asked why is it not a penalty I cannot see any possible answer!
Dawson got there first and got between the player and the ball and the Burnley player fouled the player. I can understand the Ref not being so clear but no reason for VAR not to apply the rules.

jay_in_cpt

claretandbluesky said:

I did not get to watch the match live but have just seen the highlights. I can't believe VAR didn't give a penalty. The Burnley player knows it's a penalty and puts his head in his hands. If the question is asked why is it not a penalty I cannot see any possible answer!
Dawson got there first and got between the player and the ball and the Burnley player fouled the player. I can understand the Ref not being so clear but no reason for VAR not to apply the rules.

VAR was Jon Moss - enough said sadly 😡

puddleglumhammers

Yet again no plan B. Substituting like for like and expecting a different outcome is so frustrating. Why not go 4 4 2 and try Yarmolenko and Antonio up top together ? Even better, try one of the reserve team strikers for 20 mins. Anything but doing what we currently do, which is predictable and pointless. We need a SuperSub.

MrsGrey

But we dominated possession, had many more shots (plenty enough to win comfortably). The team and formation was not the problem, in fact one might argue it would have been a mistake to change tactics in the way you suggest. The problem was shots on target/ being clinical.

eskimoking

Look at Vlasic. Where’s Benrahma? How long did they each have on the pitch? Just for those who think saying like for like or criticising Vlasic is fair…

alderz

MrsGrey said:

But we dominated possession, had many more shots (plenty enough to win comfortably). The team and formation was not the problem, in fact one might argue it would have been a mistake to change tactics in the way you suggest. The problem was shots on target/ being clinical.

During the game people said that we were doing everything right but the final ball. So, to me at least, like for like was the right choice. Someone to do the same things, but hopefully make better final passes.

IronHerb

Game performance but no end result unfortunately. Deserved the win but Burnley do defend in numbers and crowd their own box.
I don't see how Antonio is getting off so likely. He's not out of form, he's hopelessly out of form, and has been for some time.
Rice was brilliant again, all over the pitch, and as has been said Arthur had one of his best games for us. We needed to vary our corners as Pope was too comfortable with them but all in all I thought it was a good, and pretty exciting, second half performance.
Also to reiterate what Slacker said. There was a good atmosphere in the away end.

COYI

Lukerz

Yeah we played very well. I am disappointed with the result as feel it’s two points dropped but lots of lovely football & just that final pass that let us down. Arsenal are not as dogged as Burnley & I feel a similar performance will result in goals.

Rice was immense. Really tried to drive us to a win. We had nice patterns of play, were strong at the back & matched them well in terms of work ethic. Just a shame we couldn’t get 3 points. Burnley were made to look very average & we just needed to test Pope a bit more.

On the ‘penalty’. It didn’t look right to me. The issue is that Dawson never takes control of the ball, he simply runs across McNeil & I feel initiates the contact. It just didn’t look correct to me. I think had Dawson controlled the ball & then been clipped, it would have been.

Dodger58

I agree with Lukerz on the penalty. I only saw on the Club site highlights (4 mins 47 seconds in), but Dawson never actually even appeared to go for the ball to me - simply ran across the defender. I would not have been happy if we had conceded a penalty for that - which we would have done if it was Salah!

Fortuneseeker

Lukerz/Dodger58, The key words used were "ran across (the defender)" that is all part of a strikers armoury and they normally end up hitting the floor and having a penalty awarded. Just need to look at Vardy, Salah or Ronaldo. Very poor use of VAR, but it was a bad weekend for Jon Moss wasn't it?

IronHerb

I haven't watched any highlights yet but at the time, and from 150m away, I didn't think it was a penalty. It didn't look right.

Fortune, in previous seasons it may well of been given but in the current 'let them play' climate more contact is rightly allowed and the running across a player is no longer a passport to a penalty.

Fortuneseeker

Ironherb, Have you seen Liverpool’s penalty at the weekend or the second one Chelsea got?

claretandbluesky

I am not sure of this ball under control thing, were a player to play his teammate through and the striker be running onto the ball and through on goal, yet the ball was still even 15 yards away, were the last defender to bring him down he would not only be awarded a foul but be sent off, yet the attacker never came near to having the ball under control?

The foul would be because of the contact and nothing else. Dawson got himself between the player and the ball which is the idea, the defender then took him out and held his head in his hands. Definite penalty to me, not even any doubt.

jay_in_cpt

Penalty all day for me…
If only we are a top 4 team….
😡… Hold on………😡

claretandbluesky

All referees need understand is that there are one set of rules and they apply throughout the whole pitch, there isn't a separate set that applies in the penalty area and the existing rules should not be applied less vigorously in the penalty area just because penalties get awarded. Anywhere else on that pitch Dawson gets a foul.

OutcastLondoner

The final pass let us down but so did the runs. There were a few passes, especially from Rice, that were there to be attacked and no one was in the right place. Antonio's positioning is completely off right now.

alderz

OutcastLondoner said:

The final pass let us down but so did the runs. There were a few passes, especially from Rice, that were there to be attacked and no one was in the right place. Antonio's positioning is completely off right now.

There was a moment when someone (possibly Benrahma I can’t remember) got free down the left, and the only run a striker should have made is to the front post in front of the defender. Antonio waited in the middle of the six yard box and it got cut out. Last year he almost always made the right choice of run, and recently he hasn’t been.

That said, I thought he played well second half against Chelsea, and ok second half against Burnley. He just doesn’t really look like scoring

OutcastLondoner

Yeah I don't think he's playing badly overall but he's kind of forgotten what made him so good as a striker.

While Benrahma's made bad decisions, he's also put in good crosses that no one's been on the end of. I do wonder sometimes whether while we gain in some ways from Rice being more advanced, we lose from having Soucek not attacking enough anymore. There was an extra threat in the box before.

IronHerb

Fortuneseeker said:

Ironherb, Have you seen Liverpool’s penalty at the weekend or the second one Chelsea got?

Yes I did and it was nailed on. I mean Mings almost appealed for it himself.

IronHerb

claretandbluesky said:

The foul would be because of the contact and nothing else. Dawson got himself between the player and the ball which is the idea, the defender then took him out and held his head in his hands. Definite penalty to me, not even any doubt.

You can have contact without fouling, after all football is a contact sport. You are not allowed to kick or trip or barge an opponent.

Fortuneseeker

It all comes down to the old adage said by many ex footballers "that is a foul anywhere else on the pitch".

Slacker

The penalty incident was up the other end from us so there’s no way you could call it from that distance. However having seen it on TV and elsewhere it’s a stonewall pen.
As others have said if that happens anywhere else on the pitch it’s a free kick.
Poor refereeing and even worse VAR. decision.

Kuchinghammer

I hate 'Vardy penalties.' To me, if a forward isn't running toward the ball, but cuts across a defender who IS running toward the ball, then it's obstruction and a free kick to the defender.