All about rules ... changes, enforcement, VAR etc

Lukerz

IronHerb said:

So we make it 5 or 10mm gap, or whatever, and then find a player is 1or 2mm in front and on it goes.

Yeah? Then he is not obvious enough offside to be given & so it stands.

Sort this VAR stuff like they do goal-line footage. Problem solved.

Under the current clipart graphic, it needs to go & be converted to clear & obvious. That is not a reliable measure, IMO.

I would have no issue with it being offside by 0.00001mm if it was 100% the case & we got the equivalent footage that they produce for goal-line incidents, that is fine. Until then it's rubbish IMO.

Yeoldhammer

It's being one week. After a period of time players will understand to time runs better, keepers will understand a foot needs to be on the line.

Its something that will take a long time to happen. Give it a season of games and i honestly think next season there will be less VAR incidents after players get use to it.

The bigger problem is though is if we are using technology for this at what point do we use technology for fouls and so on that is the bigger issue ? the standard of refereeing is still poor.

chicagohammer

Yeold, I agree, we certainly do not want to see what happens over here on most other sports were every decision is open to challenge, I would hate to see any expansion of use where disputes on corners or throw ins etc are included

MIAHammer

Will VAR be used for all the tugging and wrestling at corners?

grey_til_I_dye

MIA

Not in general, afaIk. However, if a goal is scored, the check will include looking for fouls in the build up.

chicagohammer

That will be interesting, it will only take a couple of VAR overturns to have a real impact on what happens at corners etc.

ianbishoplegend

On the penalty retake, I assume the var office called the ref up on that, so they are giving him advice during a game? I thought he had to request it?

grey_til_I_dye

ibl

Not at all.

Key to both principles is the ongoing, match-long dialogue between the on-field official and their video assistant, much of which occurs in the background without players or supporters being overtly aware.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48953873

The Beeb also have a video explaining VAR in the PL:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/49271372

jay_in_cpt

It's all well and good that VAR decides if a goal etc is legit, but I for 1 think that the fun of it all has been taken away, I know it's helped us etc and I know that VAR is possibly the right thing, but I'm now scared to even celebrate a goal now...It IMO has taken something away from the sport, And yes I know it was needed, but sometimes it was a little fun to talk about contreversy etc...all IMO of course!

grey_til_I_dye

jay

Fair enough, although it hasn't really removed controversy, and has, to a great extent, removed injustice.

Many would say that Citeh should have had a pen yesterday, despite the VAR review not overturning the ref's decision.

jay_in_cpt

Yeh, I agree with Grey, re the pen it has to be a massive mistake b4 they will overturn the pen call...That's what I see anyway!.. It just seems like you can't have that immediate celebration when the ball goes in, you have to wait, that's the part that I miss...The rest fair enough...

IronHerb

Brighton celebrated their disallowed goal just as we did our goal. It didn't take away the excitement. It's little different to when a goal is celebrated before noticing the flag is up for offside.

jay_in_cpt

Yeh but IH it doesnt take a minute or so to see the assistant ref's flag up, does it.

grey_til_I_dye

jay

No, but it did take Madeley about 2 minutes to allow the Bournemouth offside/handball (take your pick) goal...

That those sort of mistakes will no longer happen, for me justifies VAR.

And then there is the new fun of celebrating when the oppo's goal is disallowed! Which gives me an idea... :run:

SuzanneClaret

VAR has and will cut down on refereeing errors.

What broadcasters will continue to do is misrepresent what has happened in a game to stoke up issues to give them more things to fill their 24hour news cycles with.

What VAR has done, for me at least, it highlight problems with some if the current rules.

IronHerb

When SKY headline along the lines of "City in VAR controversy" it just shows the problems the broadcasters and pundits are having accepting the Laws of the game. It would have been controversial if the goal had been allowed. How is applying the law controversial?

SuzanneClaret

Well it’s not, which was my point.

SuzanneClaret

It will be interesting to see how VAR effects Palace’s penalty count for the season.

Detrimentally one would hope.

thornburyiron

I don’t think VAR is a problem. It’s the way they’ve changed the rules, especially handball, which is causing the problem at the moment. As it was a goal VAR checked for a reason to disallow it and the handball was the reason. If it had hit the spurs defenders hand and been cleared would VAR have checked it and called it back for a penalty. I doubt it because nobody in the ground noticed the ball hit the hand.

grey_til_I_dye

thorn

They are different scenarios.

In determining if a penalty should be awarded, the rules allow for unintentional handball to be taken in to account.

In determining if a goal should be awarded, where there is use of the arm/hand in the build up or by the scorer even if accidental the goal will not stand.

It seems right to me that you can't score with your hand.

thornburyiron

That’s my point though Grey. Yesterday if the ball had hit a defenders hand instead of Laporte VAR would not have come into it as nobody even knew it had hit a hand. Nobody appealed for a penalty and the ref missed it.

chicagohammer

The City disallowed goal seems desperately unlucky, the ball did brush the arm of the player but the arm was not in an unnatural position and the ball was not deflected in anyway so no advantage was gained.

Without VAR there was no way that goal would have been disallowed and I doubt if a single voice would have been raised in objection

For me I think it is the rule that is the issue here, not VAR, I get that a goal should not given if “scored” off an arm, even unintentional, however I struggle with a goal being disallowed if there was unintentional contact with an arm in the build up.

ASLEFshrugged

Ian Holloway on "The Debate", Sky Sports, last night

For me it doesn't make sense, the handball rule, If it's not handball for both, how can you assess that. And to be fair, is that clear and obvious?

They forgot the most important thing of all. Their job is to not re-referee the game but to be clear and obvious so I don’t think that’s our boys making up that new change of law, I think that’s people telling us what we should do with our game. Now, they should stop doing that.

I hope we get out of Brexit, because that’s what we all voted for, and sort that out, because you cannot have someone telling us how to do our own game

Rule changes are made by the International Football Association Board which consists of delegates from England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and FIFA. Each of the home nations has one vote, FIFA has four.

Never overestimate the intelligence of footballers or football managers.

MrsGrey

thornburyiron

I think VAR will iron out over time but the issue I have at the moment is that for every goal scored they are looking for a reason to disallow it. Generally the decisions made have been correct but referees do have the option of not using the VAR decision although I could see this causing some problems.
Maybe the VAR scrutiny is too forensic as in the case of the City goal. Nobody in the stadium and the vast majority of tv viewers spotted the ball hitting Laporte’s hand and would have complained had the goal stood.
I know there were some ridiculous hand ball decisions given in the CL and EL last season and they are trying to prevent them occurring.
I wonder how consistent the decisions have been because we don’t necessarily see every one every week

OldCastleSwift

ASLEFshrugged said:

Ian Holloway on "The Debate", Sky Sports, last night

For me it doesn't make sense, the handball rule, If it's not handball for both, how can you assess that. And to be fair, is that clear and obvious?

They forgot the most important thing of all. Their job is to not re-referee the game but to be clear and obvious so I don’t think that’s our boys making up that new change of law, I think that’s people telling us what we should do with our game. Now, they should stop doing that.

I hope we get out of Brexit, because that’s what we all voted for, and sort that out, because you cannot have someone telling us how to do our own game

Rule changes are made by the International Football Association Board which consists of delegates from England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and FIFA. Each of the home nations has one vote, FIFA has four.

Never overestimate the intelligence of footballers or football managers.

Holloway is getting absolutely trounced on Twitter for this statement.

It's beyond thick.

ASLEFshrugged

Ian Holloway has defended himself in the Mirror

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/ian-holloway-clarifies-brexit-handball-18976856

"FIFA and UEFA have brought these rules in, they told us we’ve got to use VAR that I’ve got no problem with, but that handball rule that they’ve made up, I don’t want to listen to them. That’s nonsensical."

"I don’t like UEFA and I don’t like FIFA telling us what we should do in our English football game. We should take control of our own game, then that wouldn’t have happened."

"Let’s get out and stop the EU dictating to us what we can do. I feel exactly the same with Uefa and Fifa over our football - I think the English FA should have more power and we should believe in ourselves,"

One man with a spade and a hole getting deeper...

MrsGrey

ASLEFshrugged said:

Ian Holloway has defended himself in the Mirror


"Let’s get out and stop the EU dictating to us what we can do. I feel exactly the same with Uefa and Fifa over our football

Well, we'd certainly win the next World Cup international competition against all those teams who are not part of Fifa.

OldCastleSwift

MrsGrey said:

ASLEFshrugged said:

Ian Holloway has defended himself in the Mirror


"Let’s get out and stop the EU dictating to us what we can do. I feel exactly the same with Uefa and Fifa over our football

Well, we'd certainly win the next World Cup international competition against all those teams who are not part of Fifa.

Nah, we'd still lose on penalties

alderz

Honestly it makes me Cross I can’t even comment