Arsenal away 25th Aug, the battle at the bottom, can we keep it below 5?

Yeoldhammer

alderz said:

And, not to labour the point too much, but against Bournemouth he had the most passes of any West Ham player (62), over 85% accuracy, set up two shots on goal (2nd highest), and made 3 tackles. I'm not suggesting that he had a 'good' game, but he was more effective than most of our players.

Then he's playing his role wrong or being told to. He is the biggest reason why there are gaping holes between our midfield and defence. If he is up the pitch creating or setting up two goal opportunities then our attacking midfield are clearly not high enough up the pitch or he is playing too far up the pitch himself !

Why is Wilson picking the ball up in the West Ham Half with only defenders to beat, he shouldn't be beating the defenders which Balbuena is completely as fault for but where hell is the West Ham Midfield !?!?!??! that supposed DM should be the one harassing him and making him commit to a dead end path. Not allowing him to dilly dally his way to a 1 on 1 straight up with the CB.

Yeoldhammer

Lukerz said:

Looking at MNF seems this is going to be a game between two sides with similar issues; high defensive lines, players not suitable/adapted to it, midfield not pressing enough to ensure the high line works, poor defending etc.

I'm hoping we will click at some point soon & the performance will be chalk & cheese. For now I'll settle for an improved defensive performance & a bit more cohesion all over the pitch.

A point would be a result to build on. I don't think we should fear Arsenal, who I think are incredibly average compared to their past sides & the rest of the top six, but we tend to concede a lot of goals whenever we play at the Emirates.

Arsenal will roll us, they could have banged in another 4 against Chelsea had they not missed the 4 sitters from 6 yards. That's not going to happen again.

IronHerb

The captain is immaterial so not a problem imo.

Lukerz

Yeold - you can't fairly judge Noble on the goal against Bournemouth.

Don't get me wrong, he wasn't great in either of our first two games but that goal against Bournemouth saw him caught up the pitch because Snodgrass gave away a terrible pass under 0 pressure. The obvious ball was out to Anderson who had the entire pitch free on the left, he tried a ridiculously risky pass, it got cut out & then one excellent pass saw Wilson in between midfield & defence. Noble was about 5 yards too far up the pitch because he was in a position which reflected the fact we had the ball in their half & comfortable possession. If Pellegrini wanted him deeper when we were in their half on the ball, he would've been deeper. In future I suppose he needs to accept his team-mates are rubbish & will likely be unable to make a pass, so to sit in front of the back two at all times & continuously accept we'll lose it. It's like the old Carlton Cole debate. Nobody expected him to win headers to they never broke beyond him so we were well placed to deal with the counter. It's safe, riskless football.

Both goals lay at the defences door. We had plenty back to deal with both goals. Ogbonna for the second & a combination of Balbuena, Zab & the entire defensive line (except Masuaku) for the first.

Lukerz

ASLEF - Arnie, Wilshere, Cresswell, Ogbonna, Zab etc plenty of options to replace Nobes. All they do at the end of the day is help flip the coin.

PrestonHammer

It's not like Rugby or Cricket where the captain has decisions to make on the field of play. The captain's job on matchday is to lead the team out, decide what side of pitch he wants to team to attack first or decide whether to kick off first half or second half, lead the line in getting in the face of the ref if he disagrees with his decision and then whether or not to get the players up for the game.

Kuchinghammer

Sanchez looked comfortable in the DM role when he came on. Start from there, and see what happens. Rice didn't deserve to be left out of the squad, and Obiang, the other alternative, hasn't been tried at all yet.
Since Wilshere will play against his old club, it means Noble may sit this one out.
Surely Cresswell is fit enough to play some part in this game: he's been involved in most of our goals for three seasons, and the team miss him & Lanzini. Anderson has not produced the goods yet.
Nothing to lose by experimenting, imo

OutcastLondoner

ASLEFshrugged said:

I hate to be repetitive but...

Pellegrini has NEVER played three at the back, even as a defensive tactic when facing Real Madrid or Barcelona with Malaga and Villarreal. In the past he has been accused of tactical inflexibility so he might shuffle the shape of the midfield and the forwards but he sticks with four at the back.

If anyone thinks we should be playing three at the back then we've got the wrong manager.

Ironically his attacking football at all costs approach is very like Ron Greenwood so we are getting the "West Ham way".

Noble hasn't been the same player since he picked up that abdominal injury in 2016/17 and I can't help wondering if delaying the surgery in order to carry on playing until we were safe from relegation has caused serious damage that he'll never fully recover from.

The obvious problem is we drop Noble who replaces him as captain? Zabaletta? Wilshire?

The last time he was managing in a serious league, how many were playing three at the back? Some teams were starting to change but I bet if you looked at most managers records you wouldn’t find evidence of much other than 4 at the back. I agree he is probably going to try and implement a system he has planned on but I don’t think the past is proof he will never go to a back 3/5.

MarkNobleLocalHero

Kuching:
Since Wilshere will play against his old club, it means Noble may sit this one out.

Not sure I follow the logic of this sentence Kuching. Does one lead to the other?

Lukerz

Didn’t appreciate Balbuena was being purchased as first choice CB, thought Diop and Rice would be ahead of him and he would be back-up.

jay_in_cpt

Sad thing for me is that I reckon if Noble is dropped, we will see Sanchez start rather than Obiang, who has yet to get any minutes...
Guess we'll see Saturday his next starting 11, but more changes again it seems.

Barney

I think some Noble comments go too far but I think we have to accept he is more of a good squad player now. He is not quick and for me is not active enough on the pitch to be captain. I suspect he wont play enough and will lose the captaincy by the end of the season. His pass success rate has been quoted but where do his passes go? often short sideways and backwards. Gone are the days when he hit defence splitting passes and controlled the midfield.
Lets show him a lot of respect he has done a great job for this club and hopefully will continue to do so in different roles. He is not high on my team selection list anymore but I do think he still has a lot to offer the club.

EXETERHAMMER

5 at the back. It's time to change Mr Pellegrini ;wink

whupathman

he plays 5, gk, back 4 ;wink ;biggrin

Bazshuayi

I worry about my fantasy team more than I do about West Ham.... At least with my team I can have an affect.

With West Ham, I guess you just have to endeavour to persevere (yes, I watched the outlaw Josey Wales last night). Maybe we need to have an edge, the sun at our back (4 or 5)... (Apologies to those who arent familiar with the film)

Kuchinghammer

MNLH: The (unclear) logic was that if Sanchez and Obiang are selected, it's between Wilshere & Noble for the other place in midfield. I know which I'd prefer, but I'm not the manager.

BubblesNeverDies

https://talksport.com/football/413357/mark-noble-is-seriously-hampering-west-ham-uniteds-progress-manuel-pellegrini-must-drop-him-or-face-losing-his-job-already/

jay_in_cpt

Ref appointed:
Graham Scott

Barney

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/6-things-noticed-arsenal-training-13121683
Good to see Arsenal preparing for our defence - using static dummies!!

puddleglumhammers

We need a team to try and nick a point so -

Fabianski
Zabaleta Ogbonna Diop Cresswell
Obiang
Snodgrass Wilshire Anderson Masuaku
Arnautovic

Anderson has looked poor on the wing so let's try him centrally.
If Antonio was in good form I would play him instead of Snodgrass.
Not sure if Yarmolenko can help in defense as much as Snodgrass.
2-2 and a mighty first point for the mighty Hammers.

ianbishoplegend

Big James Collins, hopefully signed sealed and delivered for this one. The football
Gods have alligned.

Bazshuayi

beat me to it ;doh

#Ginger 'Pelle'

PrestonHammer

Has Pellegrini dyed his hair ginger or has James Collins re signed for West Ham? I'm confused. ;hmm

Bazshuayi

The Sun (eh hem) comments on the latter perhaps happening. (even if Pelle dyes his hair ginger it'll go back to grey after the Arsenal game ;whistle )

Pearces_Left_Foot

I like Collins but if you told me we were signing a 34 year free agent defender to sort out our defence I would n't be too impressed

MarkNobleLocalHero

Much as I love Ginge I cannot view this as a way to shore up our friable defence and it is certainly no way to get the team and particularly the defence playing a la Pelle. I thought that was why we added two new and relatively young centre backs. ;doh

Maybe Ginge is going to play holding midfield? ;hmm Our season starts here ;bowdown .

ASLEFshrugged

Maybe Pellegrini wants to drop Noble but doesn't fancy handing the armband to any of the other players so he's brining Ginge back.

Yeoldhammer

Can't sign frees anyway

Lukerz

Even if we did he couldn’t play until Jan.

IronHerb

Ginger isn't a free transfer' he's a free agent so could be signed for immediate use.