The Arsenal (A) Carabao Cup Match Thread 19.12.17 19:45

Pengeman

A dire game. Quinao tried and should not be judged on one game. May be his attacking prowess was muzzled last night. Our midfield and attacking play was disappointing and relied too much on Masaraku for creativity. Could Hart have saved the only short Arsenal had?
I don't think playing Reid, Ogbonna and Collins as the three centre-halves works as none brought the ball out to set off any offensive moves. Cresswell at the left of the three works better and he also joins in with Masaraku. Ayew can't play the Lanzini role and Hernandez should not play the sole striker role. Could Quinao play the Lanzinin role or may be give Samuelson a go. Definitely need someone who can link defence to attack. Sakho did not seem to be that interested when he came on and Carroll is very one dimensional.

Now need to beat Newcastle.

OldCastleSwift

PLF ;ok

The reality of it is that even the reserves of the bigger teams are at least on the level of the rest of the PL teams. I watched the Leicester v Man City game last night and City's 'reserves' were class. Even when Leicester brought Vardy and Mahrez on City looked pretty comfortable in the main.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Moyes has managed to get us 7 points out of 12 in games we wouldve likely got 0 before he joined

And in those 4 games (at least the first 3) the boys have been well under the cosh and have run themselves inti the ground with little rotation

Lets be frank, even if we beat Arsenal then we wouldve still had to play City and likely United or chelsea over 2 legs

The chances we won will ve minimal

You can say we shouldve had more attacking intent but we had an unblanced side missing our creative players

Honeslty i didnt care about last night when we are on the position we are in

First get safe then we may look at the FA cup

Cuz1

To right win last night and get relagated great logic

baracks_a_hammer

Who said anything about winning?

Not giving it a decent go (or actually any sort of a go) was what I personally have a gripe about.

If I came into work and gave my work a half hearted effort my seniors would not be best pleased.

IronHerb

So we would only have to play one of the big boys should we have won last night so why bother? That's the spirit!

Pearces_Left_Foot

I think we used the same game plan we used in the league against Chelsea Man City and Arsenal we restricted them to 1 shot on target. To say we did n't try is unfair the players worked hard again we just lacked quality due to suspensions injuries and squad depth. We lost the game in midfield which was missing Noble Lanzini Kouyate Antonio who were either injured or banned I am not sure who else we could of played there.

Huttonhammer

I think Mr Moyes did the right thing myself.
He got to look at a few more squad players and gave a few that have worked hard in recent weeks a rest.
DM cannot afford to risk going for the cups and trying to keep us up he is under far too much pressure and is currently doing a very good job.

To say last nights display was shameful or lacked effort is wrong. They had a strong side out and didn’t do an awful lot either.

Staying in the premier league is the main target and you can go for a cup if you are doing ok in the league . That is my view.

TheMadcapLaughs

I don`t think you can fault the effort last night, what you can fault is the quality, I really can`t believe how poor most of the passing was, and the failure to pick the strongest 11 available. Going back to the passing, Mas got himself into space a few times and a SIMPLE pass would have found him, but the pass was either hit 10 yards in front or behind, or at hip height. I don`t think Mas would be much of a poker player, and I don`t think I`d want to get on the wrong side of him. ;angry

grey_til_I_dye

I'm sure Birmingham fans find great cheer in their current doldrums when they think back to their win over Arsenal.

I thought we did 'give it a go' with the players out there.

People have been raging for Quina to start. He did.

We did try to attack (on the odd occasion Arsenal let us have the ball) we just didn't manage to create much.

I don't think we threw it away/didn't want to win. I think, like the other 3 teams yesterday, we fielded a reasonable group of players, given our circumstances.

I thought it made sense to try to keep the same shape, as that made us defensively solid, but Cressers is so one-footed that any time we broke on the right side, the ball ended up going backwards.

On the left, I thought we played nicely at times, with fast passing and little triangles.

Tomw85

I was at the game yesterday and although it was far from the best performance I really don't understand the bad reaction.

I think DM was right to prioritise the league, however I also don't think that he threw this game away either. The three he rested needed it after the last couple of games and we have a big game against Newcastle coming up, but apart from that he fielded as strong a team as he could. Also Arsenal put out a pretty strong first 11.

For me Quina is not ready yet, there were signs of potential but I felt that he was buzzing around a lot but not really doing much, the other negative for me was Cresswell on the right hand side, as others have mentioned he always cut back on to his left and offered no real threat or outlet going forward. Also Hernandez never really got into the game and was missing someone like Lanzini playing him in and link up the play.

Musuaka was the biggest positive for me and was our main outlet, I was also encouraged by our defensive shape and we were clearly hoping to hit them on the counter to grab a goal. It was also good to see Adrian in the technical area a couple of times encouraging the players on.

We tried to go for it at the end and there was some very cynical time wasting by Arsenal, they had several players go down with very little contact and then stay down for as long as they could. They also timed their subs to come on after they had already wasted time setting up a free kick, it was very frustrating sitting with the home fans at this point (got tickets from an Arsenal friend) and their fans don't half whinge. Luckily I was near the West Ham fans so got to enjoy hearing their passion even if I couldn't join in.

If we get in a couple of needed reinforcements in Jan who can challenge for the starting 11 straight away then I can see us pushing on and finishing top half.

IronHerb

The inability to pass the ball cost us as much as anything else last night. It allowed Arsenal to have more of the ball than they would have had and kept us on the back foot.
Cresswell on the right was an error. Why not keep the 3 CB formation, that seems to be working well, together?
It was a poor performance and I don't see dressing it up as anything else does us any favours.

Very disappointing.

grey_til_I_dye

Herb

I'd agree it was poor, but that isn't the same as 'disgrace/disgusting' (not saying you said that.)

I'd much sooner we had played better, but I don't see that we didn't try to win.

IronHerb

I agree Grey but we weren't set up to do anything in particular and few, if any, good individual performances. It was a bit Evertonesque.

secrethammersfan

baracks_a_hammer said:

Who said anything about winning?

Not giving it a decent go (or actually any sort of a go) was what I personally have a gripe about.

If I came into work and gave my work a half hearted effort my seniors would not be best pleased.

Likewise, if you didn't actually meet your targets because you spent all your time doing smaller jobs and making your desk look smart, you'd be in trouble too! It seems that managers can't please all pf the people all of the time!

baracks_a_hammer

IronHerb said:

So we would only have to play one of the big boys should we have won last night so why bother? That's the spirit!

;hmm

Moojor

Could have been playing Bristol....

Bazshuayi

Yeah but, no but.... ;whistle

thornburyiron

City deserved to win but Utd were so so cocky all through the game.

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

Seriously seriously disappointed with this result and the performance.....

First off we won’t have a better chance to beat AFC away. Let’s not kid ourselves that was AFC second string and the bench was barely known to anyone outside of AFC. Giroud hardly starts these days Walcott is no longer a guarantee and Wellbeck is normally injured.

I don’t blame Moyes I think he tried to leave us strong and he also had to factor in certain things, Noble injured, Arnie coming off as a precaution and Antonio is only lasting 60-70. Add to that Zaba had played 3 tough games in a week, also AC is coming back from another injury and Sakho still isn’t 100% imo. He put a kid in which everyone loves to see but the boy was out of his depth.

Yes NUFC is important but I’m not sure what else he could’ve done, i for one certainly wanted us in the semi and a shot at a cup final, I don’t buy into all this PL will be at a cost if we go for it malarkey.

Bristol City seem fine with these set of fixtures on Dec 23, 26, 30 & Jan 1, 6, 9 (CC semi final 1st leg) & 13 and they’re trying to make the PL for the first time

It was just an all round shocking performance and we never got started and they were there for the taking, as for the goal then they all need to put their hands up the defence and Hart, really sloppy almost in slow motion and training ground material.

Football is about winning things, cups and glory and not about finishing 17th, it’s just so disappointing after the work against Spurs and the previous 3 performances, truly gutted

Fortuneseeker

S_C_H_B,

You probably feel the same way as I did when we won at Old Trafford & Sunderland in the FA Cup the other season then lost at home to Spurs! ;weep

Cuz1

I hate losing to anyone but would sacrifice that performance every time and swap it for three points people say the front three at Arsenal arnt regulars well I’d have at least two in our first team so yes disappointed with result and performance but beat the bar codes be all worth it imo

TwistandShout

Cuz1 said:

I hate losing to anyone but would sacrifice that performance every time and swap it for three points people say the front three at Arsenal arnt regulars well I’d have at least two in our first team so yes disappointed with result and performance but beat the bar codes be all worth it imo

Then what is the point in getting past the first round?
What was the point in being happy about beating Spurs in the last round?

I don't get how if we won/gave it a go Tuesday night then that means we wouldn't win on Saturday.

We're west ham united, its not every year we make the cup quarter finals

IronHerb

Totally agree Twist ;ok

MarkNobleLocalHero

What was the point in being happy about beating Spurs in the last round?

EErrrrrrrr?? ;nonono

It's an existential question is it?

Cuz1

So twist, would you prefer a cup final appearance against staying up if that was Moyes logic in playing a couple of kids to protect a few for the bread and butter ie the premier league I said I didn’t like the result or performance but imo I’d forgive and forget for three points Saturday as we’ve said before it’s all about opinions

TwistandShout

Why would it be one or the other though Cuz? If we won the game we would have had a maximum 3 games extra.
Im sorry but the 'relegation excuse' is just a cop out. There's 19 premier league games left...

Cuz1

Twist respect your opinion but in my eyes a team was chosen where changes were made as were in previous rounds, the fact the team underperformed and even less effort is a concern my point was I don’t think Moyes sent them out to not try because of the league game but said I could forgive and forget if we get three points Saturday and move up the table not that we shouldn’t try because there’s better teams in it

grey_til_I_dye

Was there any team in the QF's that put out a full strength team?

The Bristol City manager described the game as their least important game this month.

Twist, you keep going on as though Moyes didn't want to win, but I don't think that is true.

He did what every manager does in this comp; gave some key players a rest, and some fringe players a game. He hoped that would be enough, and it wasn't.

Slizzy, saying Giroud doesn't regularly start for Arsenal, so is not first team, is a bit disingenuous. He starts regularly for France.

Teams outside the top 6 could only dream of fielding Walcott Welbeck and Giroud as a front 3.

TwistandShout

Grey, for me its not all about team selection. I wasn't too upset with the starting xi (except for Cresswell at right back). It was the attitude and the defensive approach. We had nothing to lose by going for it, instead we went out on a whimper. That's the disappointing thing for me ;ok