Man City vs West Ham - Sunday, 3rd Dec, 16:00

Huttonhammer

So we only lost by the odd goal to City.
For me it just makes it far worse that just a few days before we got thumped by a very average Everton side. We also lost to Watford etc etc.
What is the point of getting any excitement from a loss no matter who it is against.
We still have no decent striker etc etc so we will never score enough goals to win many games and most amazing stat is that we find ourselves below Crystal Palace who didn’t win any games or score a goal for ages . Truly shocking.
It is more than likely that we will have normal service being resumed against Chelsea as we will not score enough goals to win any games with the awful strike force we have.
We may get the occasional better performance but most are shocking as we don’t have enough creativity or goal power to beat anyone in this division.
10 points from 15 games is disgraceful.

MrsGrey

So, not a 'glass half full' person, then? ;hmm

SuzanneClaret

jay_in_cpt said:

And Fabian Delph can also shut his gob..
He's just fortunate to play for City.

I know. Right!

Moaning about us parking the bus when all he did was throw himself to the ground.

Horrible child.

TheMadcapLaughs

Hutton, so far the season HAS been horrendous, and yesterdays performance may well be another false dawn, but I think Moyes will have learned a lot from the past couple of games. I think he/we will turn it around, and I do think there are goals in the side. What we need to utilise though is pace, I think he has realised this and will pick his teams accordingly. Sakho, Ayew, Hernandez, Antonio, Lanzini, Carroll, Arnautovic are all capable, we even have OGBONNA to pop up with the odd goal. There are definitely goals in the side, play 3/5 at the back and a bit of pace up top and we will score. We may be doomed/fated for relegation, the season has that feel about it, but I do think we will see a better second half of the season and may just have enough to avoid it. ;scarf

Yeoldhammer

Sorry folks I think we are still going down. We royally messed up the first half of the season and I don't think we will get the 7 or 8 wins and 4 or 5 draws (minimum) to stay up.

For me as shown with Rice we need to start imbedding more young players for the Champo. Get Martinez on the pitch ! get him game time, we really do not have anything to lose at this point.

SuzanneClaret

Yeold you are usually the ying to my yang, your glass being half empty when mine is half full.

But I agree with you about relegation and about preparing for it now.

Rice needs to be embedded into the team, preferably for me partnered with Reid.

Adrain should be #1 keeper.

jay_in_cpt

I'm trying to stay positive ..
Think it's a 50/50 chance we we go down still..
We are not cut adrift , far from it..
There are also a number of other teams that can easily fall away.
I admit it's going to have to be a vastly improved 2nd half of the season, but staying up is IMO still well in our own hands..
We also need a bit of luck now & then & a few less injuries in the 2nd half of season wouldn't go amiss..
I'm not giving up on staying up yet, with over half the season still to
Come...

Bazshuayi

For me, Chelsea and Arsenal (whilst I obviously expect us to try) should just be seen as more time to gel under the new manager with little expectation. Hopefully by the time we face teams of less prowess we'll start picking up some points. Also, we'll probably see what effect the training over a few weeks has had by then.

(After a peak at the FF GWs a minute ago)

If we, for example, say we need 30 more points (to reach 40 rather than 36) to stay up and we theoretically take zero points from the top 6 clubs... Then we need to average 2pts from the 15 games below.

That sounds like a tall order.

We may only need 36pts to stay up but just from that 2 point average sticking in my head, we'll probably need to take a few points from the eight games versus top six sides we'll face before the season ends.

So...

Three lucky draws out of 8 games vs top 6 teams and theoretically needing a total of 36 points means we needs to then average about 1.5 points a game from the games below.


16 Dec 15:00 18 Stoke (A)
23 Dec 15:00 19 Newcastle (H)
26 Dec 15:00 20 Bournemouth (A)
02 Jan 19:45 22 West Brom (H)
13 Jan 15:00 23 Huddersfield (A)
20 Jan 15:00 24 Bournemouth (H)
30 Jan 19:45 25 Crystal Palace (H)
03 Feb 15:00 26 Brighton (A)
10 Feb 15:00 27 Watford (H)
03 Mar 15:00 29 Swansea (A)
10 Mar 15:00 30 Burnley (H)
31 Mar 15:00 32 Southampton (H)
14 Apr 15:00 34 Stoke (H)
05 May 15:00 37 Leicester (A)
13 May 15:00 38 Everton (H)

Now I can go to bed...

SuzanneClaret

Arsenal still don’t like it up ‘em so I think we’ll get something from the. BUT Saturday they made de Gea make a hat full of great saves.

Yeoldhammer

Baz, I don't think we will be taking any points from the top 6 this season. assuming that is 0. we have 13 games where we need about 7 wins and 5 draws (that's a minimum) so essentially we would need to beat or draw every club outside the top 6. In my opinion its just not going to happen.

IronHerb

So what you are saying is that we can't get 5 or 6 points more than Palace, West Brom, Huddersfield, Newcastle, Bournemouth and Stoke?

I happen to think we can.

Yeoldhammer

Grey you made it onto the BBC unless there is an imposter:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/42219625

I asked why punishing a dive in game warrants a booking but retrospective punishments are more harsh...

WHU606: From the FA: “...the fact that the act of simulation has succeeded in deceiving a match official and, therefore, led to a penalty and/or dismissal, justifies a more severe penalty which would act as a deterrent."

Knew you lot wouldn't disappoint, thanks for putting my quandary over diving bans to bed.

grey_til_I_dye

Yeold

WHU606 Twitter - resolving Internet quandaries one at a time... ;wink

MrsGrey

.. by looking stuff up. ;biggrin

TheMadcapLaughs

..on the internet....

MrsGrey

;thumbsup


;lol

MIAHammer

I'm sorry but I don't understand how some people are already resigned to relegation with 23 games still to play. It's not like there a huge gap between us and other struggling teams. Obviously our goal difference doesn't help us in a tight finish but a good run of 2-3 games can zoom anyone up the table.
For us to start preparing for life in the Championship in December seems like madness to me.

Yeoldhammer

its getting those 2-3 wins in a row, we have 2 wins in 15 games...

baracks_a_hammer

And the fact that our points tally after 15 games is our worst in the premier league era, including the years we were relegated

I’m certainly not celebrating yesterday. We lost = zero points.

Yeoldhammer

I think we will have a better second half of the season but I think we are down with probably around 28-30 points this season.

NEoldiron

Yes, we lost, but the difference in the performance between yesterday and the previous 14 games was amazing.
Everyone (almost) on here was expecting a drubbing, yet we actually had chances to get at least a point.
IMO this is the first time this season where the players seemed to believe in themselves.
One thing which stands out since Moyes took over, is that they seem to be able to last the whole 90+ minutes, so that is at least one step in the right direction.
;scarf

Huttonhammer

so They lasted the whole 90 mins against Everton? That result and the Man City result really sum this shambles of a team up . We get thumped by a team who were in complete disarray and then put on a better performance against City but still lose.
There is no consistency of any sort with the players and the team. We cannot score many goals due to our awful strike force and so if we let one goal in it is almost nailed on that the best we can hope for Is a draw but more likely we will lose.
Also if we play a supposedly weaker team they always put in much more effort than us and win.
Let’s see if anything has really changed when we play Chelsea? I personally cannot see us getting anything from the games coming up unless we are very lucky indeed.

TheMadcapLaughs

I can see where you are coming from, and Yeolds two wins in fifteen makes pretty grim reading, and after the Everton game I had given up all hope. However, all Moyes can do is learn, learn about the players he has at his disposal, and the best system to employ them in, and I think he will. It may be too late, we may be relegated (that doesn`t bother me) but I think Moyes has a determination about him, he has something to prove, I think he is a proud man and will not allow another shambles like the Everton game. I also think (hope) he will be brave enough to pick his teams on performance, not past glories or reputation. With all that in place I think we will see an improvement, after the Everton game I don`t think any of us could see where the next point was coming from, but I think that game was a blip, an anomaly. From here on in we will improve and the players will fight for every point.

TheMadcapLaughs

I did a lot of thinking in my last post. ;puzzled ;cool

ASLEFshrugged

We've been here before 2009/10, 2006/07 plus many more, it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings so start force-feeding Brady cream cakes and lets get on with the second half of the season

TheMadcapLaughs

Aslef, I think there would be a lot of volunteers, but I`m not sure it would be strictly legal. In fact in lieu of The Hammerettes returning, it could be the half time entertainment. ;cake

claretandbluesky

The bookies have us as finishing third bottom, they see it as Swansea highly likely to go down and Palace more than likely, not a lot between us and Huddersfield for the third place however.

I think it will be tough but not out of the question, likely to go to the wire and I hope we don't go down by two points as Antonio's unexplainably poor use of the ball at Palace will be seen as the relegation moment I am sure. I still cant work out how he managed to chip it into the keepers hands with a minute to go!

NEoldiron

C&B, those 2 points are taking on a huge significance ;weep

Adam

Whatever happens, we need to be out of the relegation zone by the middle of March. With our run-in, we will need points on the board.

Cuz1

Keep the faith