Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Categories
- 1.3K All Categories
- 1 Site Stuff
- 31 Admin (FAQs, rules, queries etc.)
- The Boleyn Arms
- 28 General Chatter
- 7 Member info & Family Album
- 3 Radio Llama (music videos)
- 351 Fun & Games
- 79 BA Predictor Threads
- 26 Word Games
- 4 Quizzes
- 2 Pun Threads
- 275 Magic Minutes
- 3 Other Fun & Games
- 105 Current West Ham
- 196 Men's First Team
- 3 Women's Team
- 10 PL2 & Academy
- 31 Management & Board
- 15 Stadium & Training Ground
- 22 West Ham Miscellaneous
- West Ham Matches
- 373 Match Threads
- 49 MOTM
- 8 West Ham Nostalgia
- 34 Former Players and Staff
- 4 Past Games & Glories
- 34 Transfers
- 45 Transfer Speculation
- 85 Completed Transfers
- 51 Internationals
- 44 Men's Internationals
- 5 Women's Internationals
- 2 Youth Internationals
- 102 Football Chatter
- 41 Football Chatter
- 256 Other Teams & Matches
- 23 Other Players & Staff
Comments
A merry can
Lol
If it truly was simply most votes across the nation wins, I would expect that many more people would have voted, many states are ingrained in their party allegiance and many people do not vote as they do not feel that realistically they have chance of effecting how the electoral college votes are assigned.
Hillary attracted 10,000,000 fewer votes than Obama got in 2008, that is an astonishing number and she was up against a widely unpopular and divisive opponent.
I struggle to conclude that, on Tuesday, she actually won the popular vote, I get that she literally got more than Trump but under a true proportional system, it is unknown if she would have succeeded, but frankly, I am afraid to conclude that I doubt it.
I think that the vote she actually got on Tuesday shows clearly how unpopular a candidate she turned out to be.
It as shame as I actually consider her a competent politician, arrogant and self promoting certainly, but competent nonetheless.
Ho hum
Well if Trump can be president, who knows?
He's a celebrity and a businessman...same as Trump...
https://www.facebook.com/mmflint/posts/10153913074756857
http://globalnews.ca/news/3057433/michael-moore-was-right-about-a-donald-trump-victory-and-now-he-has-a-plan/
Well Michael, people did participate, and they voted for Trump.
Michael Moore: "The other side needs to be ready to roll right now to do whatever it takes to stop his appointment to the Supreme Court"
The hypocrisy of the liberal left is quite staggering. His very presence on the street protesting at THE RESULT is quite staggering. You either support the ideal of governmental democracy and the rule of law or you don`t. Thornbury touched on the fact that normal, poor, disenfranchised, people voted for Trump, and was told that (in effect) they have done nothing but swallow his lies. If you want "the truth" you need to listen to people from the educated classes. This is what people are absolutely sick of, being told by the rich and famous "this is the way it should be, this is the way you should think". You can`t hold up the bastions of "free speech", "democracy" "the rule of law" on the one hand but throw Twitter inspired hissy fits if the results go against you. NONE of these people would have been on the streets if Hillary had won. Which I find quite bizarre, as for the absolute poorest, the absolute disenfranchised, the underclass, would ANYTHING worthwhile actually have changed? Probably not, but the liberal lefts sense of moral outrage would have been assuaged for another four years and they could have concentrated on the next "right on" project. People are sick to the back teeth of "The Bob Geldof syndrome" and the "What have you done?" elitist claptrap. If you want to take to the streets, please don`t do it because its the "wrong result", but do it because you stand against the very institutions that allow this to happen. The people now on the streets sign up to democracy, they abdicate the power they have over themselves to someone else. That`s what our peculiar democracies are all about.
I am in no way a supporter of Trump, he`s a twit. But what makes Hillary so much better that people like Michael Moore would now be sitting smug and content and posting self congratulatory selfies on Twitter.
What do these "anti fascists" think they look like burning effigies of Trump.
These are the very people questioning the rights and ability of people to look at things in an objective and rational way before casting their vote, I.E. Trump voters. Do they suggest withdrawing votes from certain sections, making people pass some sort of competency test before voting?? Would they be asked about their moral standpoint on certain issues. Because these "anti fascists" are starting to look a little elitist to me, it`s only a few short steps.
There weren't mass protests after any other recent elections, Trump is the exception, his vile rhetoric had incensed people and polarised the USA to an extent that hasn't been seen since possibly the 1861 election of Lincoln.
As for accepting Trump as POTUS there were plenty on the right that still don't accept that Obama was a legitimate president and the left are objecting because of his policies rather than some imagined Kenyan birth certificate.
There is also a bit of crossed views here. I wasn't talking about some celeb who comes out and parrots their opinions.
More the fact that you have experts who spend their lives specialising in certain fields of study who then give their informed opinion on said subject at times like Brexit etc who then get slated because they are viewed as elitist because they have gone to a certain school or had a certain level of education.
I find it bizarre that there seems to be a general sense of 'well, the result was X, so now shut up and put up.' (We saw it with the UK referendum too.)
Obviously, the election result is final (although Trump had said that if he had not won he would have contested the result).
But that is no reason not to express your views on it, and say why you think it was a mistake, and why you will be fighting for a different result next time.
It is also no reason why you should not protest about and strenuously oppose (by whatever legal means you have, whether as an ordinary bod or through your profession of as one of the other democratically elected representatives) any and every attempt by the government to remove your rights or enact laws which you don't agree with.
----
That by way of general comment.
Just to address a couple of points in your last post, madcap
madcap said NONE of these people would have been on the streets if Hillary had won Well, erm, obviously. ;puzzled I don't see how that's in any way hypocrisy? It would have been the other voters out protesting.
madcap also said This is what people are absolutely sick of, being told by the rich and famous "this is the way it should be, this is the way you should think".
Rich and famous? Like Trump?
"We can't let this happen, We should march on Washington and stop this Travesty. Our nation is totally divided"
"This election is a total shame and a travesty. We are not a democracy"
"lets fight like hell and stop this great and disgusting injustice. The world is laughing at us"
"The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy"
Yesterday he tweeted:
"Just had a very open and successful presidential election. Now professional protesters, incited by the media, are protesting. Very unfair!"
So, does that make him a hypocrite?
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/us-election-results-celebrity-reactions-as-donald-trump-becomes-president_uk_5822d759e4b020461a1e3020
Note the Michael Moore entry.
You can`t have it all ways.
By a strange quirk, I tend to agree with the sentiments and general message that the glitterati espouse. What I can`t stand is the hypocrisy, the faux moral outrage, the smugness, and the poorly disguised contempt shown to "normal people".
As I have said previously, IMO, the possibility of real change no longer exists within the current system. Rage against the government, rage against unjust laws (all), rage against inequality, rage against globalization, rage against war, but don`t rage against the legitimate winner.
This is what bugs me, these people would have been as quiet as church mice had Hillary won. What REALLY would have been SO different except the "honesty" of the rhetoric. Under people like Hillary, the gap between rich and poor has grown.
Katy Perry: THE REVOLUTION IS COMING
don`t make me laugh.......................
Brexiteers: £350M to the NHS
It's all the same thing. Just trying to get votes.
And Aslef. My point is that (this version of) democracy allows this to happen, as you say even the Nazi`s were voted in.
Don`t blame the people who win. Blame the system. If there is a propensity for, or a likelihood that, madmen and tyrants can be legally elected within the current system. Why not (seems perfectly logical to me) look at ways of changing the system. The hypocrisy is that these people are protesting about the result, well tough, none of them (to my knowledge) have stopped and thought "hey, perhaps it`s the system that is at fault and perhaps we should take a serious look at that".
The gap between rich and poor grows daily, despite well meaning rhetoric and right on people being "on message". This happens here and now under institutions here and now. Hillary wouldn`t have made a blind bit of difference.
You are missing my point. Do not aim your vitriol at Trump and SimonC. Aim it at the institutions and powerbase that allow this to happen.
Trump and Hillary are just two sides of the same coin.
Katy Perry is inciting revolution. A big thumbs up from me. IMO, these people are doing it for the wrong reasons though. Why wasn`t she inciting revolution a week last wednesday. Oh yeah, her preferred candidate hadn`t lost then. But to my knowledge people were still starving, war was still raging, inequality was still growing.
Do people want a parliamentary democracy or a social revolution, as I`m a little confused as to what way people are leaning. It seems to me democracy is great as long as the right candidate wins. Well they won`t always.
Personally, I think, we, as in the human race need to call out any and all "leaders" who are racist, sexist, homophobic, bigoted etc. Regardless of the ways in which they are elected.
Trump has said that he is serious about getting ALL Muslims in America on a register. That isn't a system which needs to be protested against, that is HIM, his view, his opinion.
If people would ask themselves how they would rather live, and under what guiding principles. Would they look to emulate Donald Trump, who by any contemporary measure, I.E. Rich, famous, successful, powerful (the American dream, anyone can do it you know) or Gandhi. I would like to think that most would like to emulate and associate themselves with Gandhi.
If you look at the basic codes that guided Gandhi they closely resemble those of classical Anarchists.
So who is the more "frightening" The Anarchist or the democratic parliamentarian.
With Kim Jong-un in the East and Trump in the West, it just got a little closer to midnight.
There may not be a next time.
Personally, I think, we, as in the human race need to call out any and all "leaders".
NE, a good but frightening point, it mystifies me how we can be manipulated to such an extent, that we will follow other ordinary human beings to the point where we are prepared to pay the ultimate price on their behalf.
It's not the democratic process or the political system that has got people angry, they are angry at Donald Trump