Other matches Saturday 25th - Thursday 30th November

ASLEFshrugged

Pep and Klopp face off for the 15th time in the Premier League and 29th time in total, Haaland has got over his ankle but Grealish is ill.

steve

Haaland scores City lead

buffybegood

Unfortunately TAA scores to level with 10 minutes left.

ASLEFshrugged

Steve Cooper whinging about the ref because he only awarded Forest a penalty after VAR but gave Brighton a penalty before VAR had confirmed it.

Poor man's Klopp

BubblesNeverDies

Just watched MOTD and Steve Cooper really is the whiniest manager isn't he.

chicagohammer

Enjoying Spurs vs Villa, two evenly matched sides going for it, currently 1-0 but could easily be 3-2 or more

chicagohammer

Enjoying it even more now 😀

steve

Spurs doing what Spurs do

buffybegood

Spurs lose 2-1 after taking the lead, no-one likes to see that......oh, wait 😂🤣😂

OutcastLondoner

Son had 3 goals ruled out for offside as well

buffybegood

Stunning goal by Garnacho in just the second minute v Everton.

IronHerb

Lucky Everton fans are protesting else you wouldn't know they were there.

buffybegood

Maguire really close to an OG, ball bounced off the keeper, onto Maguire and was heading goalwards till a team-mate scooped it off the line.

BubblesNeverDies

Kobbie Mainoo, midfielder, 18years old, gets a start under ETH and also prevents a certain equaliser.
Would Moyes have even put him in the match day squad? I don't think so.

buffybegood

Wolves again didn't get any sort of rub of the green last night from the refs in their match at Fulham last night. The most obvious one is that surely Vinicius has to see a red card for headbutting Kilman. I'm not saying it was a Glaswegian kiss, but any sort of movement into another player's face is an automatic red, so I'm not sure how he escapes with a yellow. Gary O'Neil says the ref described it as a "soft headbutt", a really poor choice of words and a poor decision from the ref imo.

Moving onto the penalties, there's not too much debate about the Wolves one (except that Ream possibly should have got a second yellow for the foul that conceded the penalty), the second Fulham penalty, whilst soft, I do think is correct; I'd be very disappointed not to be awarded it if our player went down. Wrt the first Fulham penalty, what I find interesting is how quickly the ref, Michael Salisbury, has thrown the VAR, Stuart Attwell, under the bus by saying that if he'd been called to the screen he'd have overturned his initial decision. Not a penalty for me either.

I know there's a lot of talk about re-reffing decisions, but I really think we need to get refs to review big decisions more often. VAR is here, it's not going away, but what we need to do is get more consistency. It's easy when a penalty has been given; the game has stopped anyway, and VAR is already looking at it, so I think the ref should always go to the monitor (if we're not going to go down using the big screen for such decisions) to make sure he's happy with the decision he's made. Stick a monitor behind each goal and then no additional time will be lost, and the ref gets a better look at the decision he's made, rather than relying on a VAR to decide whether it might be wrong enough for him to have another look.

Penalties not given is slightly more difficult, as you'd have to rely on the VAR more, but if it's commonplace for a ref to quickly (no more than 30 secs) review any contentious decisions penalty decisions not given at the next break of play (again, more monitors around the pitch should help), then overall the game would probably flow better. VAR has the contentious incident lined up, ref jogs to screen, has a look and then he makes the decision, whether it's to stay with his original decision or change it if what the monitor shows is not how he saw the incident.

MrsGrey

For me, a large proportion of these issues are down to the stupid 'clear and obvious' element that the FA (?PL) introduced. You are adding yet another layer of 'judgement call'.

The aim of VAR should be to get THE RIGHT DECISION.

As it is, we've got a system that is happy for the wrong decision to stay, as long as it's not very wrong, maybe.

So much of the anger a bout reffing decisions arises when opinions differ... so why an official body would decide to add in another layer of opinion is beyond me.

buffybegood

MrsGrey said:

The aim of VAR should be to get THE RIGHT DECISION.

As it is, we've got a system that is happy for the wrong decision to stay, as long as it's not very wrong, maybe.

Perfectly summed up.

"It's a little wrong to say a tomato is a vegetable, it's very wrong to say it's a suspension bridge" (The Big Bang Theory). Seems like only supension bridges are deemed worthy of the ref having a second look.

ASLEFshrugged

Is "clear and obvious" FA/Premier League only?

I thought VAR was the same in all competitions and haven't noticed any difference with it in the Conference League or Europa League games we've played

OutcastLondoner

MrsGrey said:

For me, a large proportion of these issues are down to the stupid 'clear and obvious' element that the FA (?PL) introduced. You are adding yet another layer of 'judgement call'.

The aim of VAR should be to get THE RIGHT DECISION.

As it is, we've got a system that is happy for the wrong decision to stay, as long as it's not very wrong, maybe.

So much of the anger a bout reffing decisions arises when opinions differ... so why an official body would decide to add in another layer of opinion is beyond me.

It can’t guarantee a correct decision as long as the decision is judged by a human. Goal line tech works because it’s a computer and sensors that can say something is over the line of not. VAR has a little more info than the ref and more time ( only as long as the crowd don’t get frustrated) but that’s not enough to say something is definitely right.

thornburyiron

Buffy the problem with reviewing penalties not given at the next break of play is problematic if the next break of play is a goal. Not an issue if the goal was at your end but if you had a goal disallowed to have a penalty given and then miss it I doubt you’d be too happy.
Clear and obvious is meaningless. If the ref makes a mistake that is so clear and obvious then he has no right to be reffing in the first place. If he misses something because he didn’t see it then that’s a different matter.

buffybegood

thornburyiron said:

Buffy the problem with reviewing penalties not given at the next break of play is problematic if the next break of play is a goal. Not an issue if the goal was at your end but if you had a goal disallowed to have a penalty given and then miss it I doubt you’d be too happy.
Clear and obvious is meaningless. If the ref makes a mistake that is so clear and obvious then he has no right to be reffing in the first place. If he misses something because he didn’t see it then that’s a different matter.

This is basically what VAR does already, I just think it should happen more often, but with a more open mind (ie not as it currently is where the ref changes his mind almost every time he's asked to look at something again by the VAR). If the ref gets to see more incidents again, he'll be less prone to second guessing himself every time the VAR gets involved.

MrsGrey

OutcastLondoner said:

MrsGrey said:

For me, a large proportion of these issues are down to the stupid 'clear and obvious' element that the FA (?PL) introduced. You are adding yet another layer of 'judgement call'.

The aim of VAR should be to get THE RIGHT DECISION.

As it is, we've got a system that is happy for the wrong decision to stay, as long as it's not very wrong, maybe.

So much of the anger a bout reffing decisions arises when opinions differ... so why an official body would decide to add in another layer of opinion is beyond me.

It can’t guarantee a correct decision as long as the decision is judged by a human.

I agree, but I didn't say it should be guaranteed. What I was getting at was the aim of VAR.

So if an error is spotted, as unclear and unobvious as it may be (what does that even mean?) it should be overturned through the application of the VAR system so that THEY at least think they've got to the right decision in the end.

Of course there's interpretations and judgements tat people will query. But the ref team should feel they can defend their decision in all honesty, not shrug and say 'it was only a little bit wrong'.

Slacker

BubblesNeverDies said:

Kobbie Mainoo, midfielder, 18years old, gets a start under ETH and also prevents a certain equaliser.
Would Moyes have even put him in the match day squad? I don't think so.

I doubt it tbh ‘cause he’s not a West Ham player,but what do I know?🤷🏻‍♂️

MrsGrey

Cos of thread title, I'm assuming this will do for Europe as well.

So...

Man City 😲😅

buffybegood

Back to 1-2 now, so they'll still be topping the group if the result stays the same.

PrestonHammer

Watching the PSG v Newcastle game. Whatever song the PSG fans are singing is getting right on my nerves.

buffybegood

City back to 2-2 now, guaranteed to top the group with a draw or better I believe.

buffybegood

Quality comeback from 0-2 down, City now lead 3-2.

PrestonHammer

Robbed. That was never a penalty.

steve

Never a pen in a hundred years .But then it is Newcastle so guess it could have been

ASLEFshrugged

Feyenoord and Young Boys drop to the Europa League.

Porto v Shakhtar Donetsk in two weeks will decide who gets the Europa League, Porto just need a draw, Shakhtar needs to win