Other festive games

jay_in_cpt

Chelsea played brilliantly in the 2nd half, what an inspiration he must be.

MrsGrey

All those Chelsea fans on Twitter calling for his head up to the 80th minute...

MrsGrey

jay_in_cpt said:

Chelsea played brilliantly in the 2nd half, what an inspiration he must be.

Had he left his inspiration in the dressing room at KO and only picked it up when they went back in at half time?

grey_til_I_dye

jay

Arsenal played abysmally 2nd half, imo.

As badly as anything we've served up.

jay_in_cpt

Grey , forget about Arsenal, how do you think Chelsea played in the 2nd half, do you not think substitutions made a difference I get Arsenal were'nt great in the 2nd half, but Grey IMO sometimes you have to give credit where it is due, & IMO Chelsea/Lampard pulled a blinder in the 2nd half, & yeh you are sort of right but not, who are the only team Arsenal have beat in the last I think over 10 games...SAD

grey_til_I_dye

jay - I'm not saying Lamps had no impact, but I don't think he suggested they lump the ball in to the box, and wait for Leno to make a catastrophic error, and then hold on until the Arsenal defence go to sleep.

For me, Chelsea's comeback had more to do with Arsenal's failings than Chelsea's brilliance.

jay_in_cpt

Cannot agree, Chelsea had wave after wave of attack, something we have not been able to do, for a long long time. I watched nearly all the 1st half & Arsenal were good, 2nd half different game, Chelsea IMO played really well, they took everything out the game & Arsenal only looked about 10% fitter than us.

jay_in_cpt

MrsGrey said:

jay_in_cpt said:

Chelsea played brilliantly in the 2nd half, what an inspiration he must be.

Had he left his inspiration in the dressing room at KO and only picked it up when they went back in at half time?

Not sure Mrs G, but think we all aware it's the final score that counts :ok:

chicagohammer

Wolves are the surprise package for me, 40mins in, without a number of their “first name on the team sheet” players and they are more than holding their own away to Liverpool

chicagohammer

And then Liverpool score in the 41st minute

Hamstew

LiVARpool

MrsGrey

jay_in_cpt said:

MrsGrey said:

jay_in_cpt said:

Chelsea played brilliantly in the 2nd half, what an inspiration he must be.

Had he left his inspiration in the dressing room at KO and only picked it up when they went back in at half time?

Not sure Mrs G, but think we all aware it's the final score that counts :ok:

I wasn't referring to the score. I was commenting on your observation that Lampard is an inspiration. He clearly wasn't in the first half. So at best he's half an inspiration

SuzanneClaret

Wolves score.

VAR rules it as offside.

Pool 1-0 Wolves

Half time

Bazshuayi

:wahoo: @ VAR

chicagohammer

Ok, we have seen this before but the Wolves goal disallowed by VAR is, IMO, another ridiculous example of how the technology is being applied.

I believe that alongside is still oK and back in the day, we had a protocol where the benefit of the doubt was given to the attacking side and I do not see or understand why that principle cannot be applied today.

These decisions where the offside is determined literally by millimeters and could never be seen by the naked eye, should not be determined as offside.

VAR has the ability to determine where clear offsides are missed by the officials and that is where it can be used.

To decide it offside where it would have been impossible for the officials to have seen it and the measurement is within a margin where a reasonable person would grant benefit of the doubt is ridiculous.

grey_til_I_dye

My impression over the last few PL rounds is that VAR officials are finally doing their job, and overruling obvious errors by on pitch officials

jay_in_cpt

I have Glenn Hoddle in studio among others, he bought up a good point IMO, so now we are using ruler lines to determine if a finger nail or hair strand is further than the defender ( ok , not those eaxct words! ), but how do we know the very precise moment that the ball is kicked could it be a tiny bit out?, if a goal is ruled out by a tiny bit of line, what about when the ball is kicked, i personally think he has a point. Dermot was on duty & all he could say was all 20 clubs accepted it & it's the best technology available at moment, but I do think that Glenn has a valid point there, when it is so,so close.

chicagohammer

My point here is that the disallowed goal for Wolves was not an obvious error by the pitch officials as it would have been impossible to flag the “offside” with the naked eye.

A reasonable person could have determined that the players were level or at least given the benefit of the doubt to the attacking player.

IronHerb

jay_in_cpt said:

I have Glenn Hoddle in studio among others, he bought up a good point IMO, so now we are using ruler lines to determine if a finger nail or hair strand is further than the defender ( ok , not those eaxct words! ), but how do we know the very precise moment that the ball is kicked could it be a tiny bit out?, if a goal is ruled out by a tiny bit of line, what about when the ball is kicked, i personally think he has a point. Dermot was on duty & all he could say was all 20 clubs accepted it & it's the best technology available at moment, but I do think that Glenn has a valid point there, when it is so,so close.

But when is a ball considered to have been kicked? Is it first contact with the boot or the point at which the ball moves following contact with the boot?

#canofworms

MrsGrey

The issue of when the ball is kicked is a red herring imo. Without VAR, the ref/lino still has to make the decision about that. Absolutely nothing has changed in that regard with the introduction of technology.

So to anyone who asks 'how do they know when...' I say 'how did they ever know'.

And if you can't ever know, then the issue isn't with VAR but with the wording of the offside rule...

Bazshuayi

as with the Pukki goal yesterday, certain decisions are going to leave a bad taste...

Personally, more than happy with the Liverpool game decisions so far :cool:

MrsGrey

chicagohammer said:

My point here is that the disallowed goal for Wolves was not an obvious error by the pitch officials as it would have been impossible to flag the “offside” with the naked eye.

.

Would you apply the same logic/argument to using goal line technology? :hmm:

BubblesNeverDies

MrsGrey, Chicago's point includes a time/motion element.
Use of goal line technology is a different argument. The position of the ball relative to the goal line is irrespective of time - did it fully cross the line or didn't it.

jay_in_cpt

just u lot wait for technology to improve! one day there will be sensors or something in boots to check for exact contact :whistle:

MrsGrey

Yes, I was alluding to his 'can't be accurately judged by the naked eye' aspect.

imo, the difficulty of judging the offside is not in dispute, but with VAR the offcials can make a better decision, as they can watch the frames multiple times. That is precisely why VAR was introduced - to enable better decisions in what is such a fast-moving game, and help the on-field ref, who has to try to watch everything, everywhere - with one pair of eyes only.

BubblesNeverDies

Regarding the Arsenal Chelsea game and Lampard's managerial ability, his tactical substitution of Jorginho for the Emerson on the 34th minute was a game-changer.

MrsGrey

As was the ref's decision not to send him off.

jay_in_cpt

MrsGrey said:

As was the ref's decision not to send him off.

which IMO was a great decision..all about opinions Mrs G, " not every foul is a card " & in my option the arsenal player Guendouzi made a 3 course meal of it..But I do accept many will disagree, personally thought ref Pawson had a great game , it was hectic & he tried his best IMO.

BubblesNeverDies

Graeme Souness made a good suggestion at half time 'Pool - Wolves game. Instead of a fingernail, hair, eyebrow being nearer to the goal (i.e. offside) let it be the bulk of the body being in an onside position.
The problem there is how do you define that - so include the direction of travel of the player and a degree of hysteresis. It's not a perfect solution but currently it's becoming ridiculous.

BubblesNeverDies

MrsGrey, agreed, Jorginho should have been sent off, it was David Luiz btw, although Guendouzi was very lucky to stay on with all his sneaky arm tugs.
However the referee's decision wasn't tactical.

And just now the Blunts have had a goal ruled out for offside - no one likes to see that