This isn’t going to be popular, but I do honestly think Rodgers would have been a great manager for us.
The football they play going forward is no worse than Pelle’s, but they have all the defensive intensity and structure that (I fear) a Pelle team will never have.
Yes but he has a very valid point. Pelle’s first season was nothing special - C minus IMO - boosted by a last gasp surge when our chance of Europe had already gone and one or two of our opponents had either nothing to play for or had their eyes half on other important fixtures.
And this season has started with a damp squib punctuated by many of the exact same failings of last time round.
Pelle is given a pretty easy ride IMO. He is paid far more and given far more transfer funds than any of our previous three PL managers. The fans (those who are not overly enamoured) deserve far more IMO.
I agree with Barcks, Pelle has got away with IMO little improvement since taking over while spending more than any b4 him, I'll give him this season to improve us, if nothing it'll be me hoping it's a big fat :wave: , & I know many won't agree with this, that's fine, we all entitled to our opinions :ok:
baracks - when you say 'nothing special', what was it you felt was a fair achievement in his first season at the club? When you think how long it can take to implement a new coaching set-up, style, players, mentality etc. Did you feel 6th or 7th should have been achievable? Better cup performances? I think the low point for me was going out of the FA Cup so poorly to AFC Wimbledon but other than that I would say it was a 'B' grade season. A top 10 finish after two years of battling relegation.
When you look at the side, players like Zabaleta, Ogbonna, Cresswell, Masuaku, Noble, Snodgrass, Rice, Antonio, Lanzini, Hernandez etc have all been regulars under Pelle, & all were regulars for the club before Pelle arrived. So, in many ways, he is still transitioning the side. Five of those have been here since the summer of 2015.
I can understand both you & jay's views. I think you could both make a fair argument by being underwhelmed depending on what you were expecting. Performances have been incredibly inconsistent.
I would say, if you sign a 3 year contract, that suggests it is a 3 year project. If they wanted him to achieve greatness in 12 months he would have signed a one year deal. I think they expect, during his third season, things to be clicking if they haven't done so sooner. This season, for me, would be another solid season if we finished in the top 10 again & put in a better showing in the FA Cup (not losing so embarrassingly to a lower league side).
Well we played better for the entire 90 minutes against Man Utd last season, both home & away. Wolves were knowing near that level last night & weren’t as good as they were last season against United. To be fair, Wolves defend with great intensity & structure because they play a back five & sit very deep. We are aiming to defend better whilst remaining on the front foot, something which is a lot harder, especially for a side of our quality.
I think the Allardyce comment is silly. It suggests there’s no happy medium when, in my opinion, both Wolves and Leicester look great going forward but also defend with structure and intensity.
It’s the last word of that sentence that continually worries me about Pelle. It’s so rare that I can remember our team closing down and chasing around with the effort and intensity those other teams show. But maybe that will come with time.
I just fear Pelle thinks the answer to everything is great technical attacking play, but it clearly isn’t.
I think finishing 9th to 11th this season doesn’t necessarily represent progress from one of the highest paid managers in the league.
But at the end of the season the daves may need to decide whether they plan to go beyond 3 years with him (as he will only have a year left) - and likewise vice versa for Pelle - ie if this “project” is worth persevering with
I personally am hoping the daves have set him a stiff target of 7th or 8th this season. Because he won’t be able to achieve that unless he sorts us out defensively
I certainly hope Pellegrini stays longer than three seasons otherwise we're back to square one with a new manager who is going to take another 2 or 3 seasons to get the team playing his tactics, bringing in players that suit his style, etc.
We need stability, six managers in less than ten years hasn't done us any favours.
Since we have no idea of how much money Pelle is getting, nor how it compares to other managers, I think using the rumoured amount as a stick to beat him with is both pointless and unfair.
I can't pinpoint when football adopted this 'only instant success is acceptable' outlook, but you'd have thought by now that fans would have realised that playing musical chairs with managers has seldom been a recipe for success. I'm with ASLEF - let Pelle get on with rebuilding the club the way he envisions it.
I saw enough last season to feel that the growing pains were worth the effort.
I think realistically we have a big transition project on our hands as a club. Our identity has swung from manager to manager ever since Redknapp left, IMO, and we need to stick to an identity.
We see other managers at other clubs coming in and making almost instant changes, but that's, I think, a bit misleading. Klopp & Guardiola come in and make what feels like immediate change, but they have hundreds of millions to spend each year. I think there is a perception that Leicester have had that change with Rodgers, but actually they haven't really (IMO) lived up to their reputation in the media so far. Wolves have been building for a few years under Nuno in the Championship.
When I think of clubs who have regular managerial changes (particularly when those managers differ philosophically), I think of people like Southampton, Newcastle, Palace, Watford, Leicester, Swansea, West Brom, Stoke. That's not a group I want to be linked to in any way.
Again perhaps a matter of opinion. On paper (offensively only), yes I would say so.
In practice defensively no, and offensively on occasion, yes.
We’ve seen virtually no evidence of it this season IMO
I meant quality as in ‘lack of’, not the other way around. We are trying to play a way that we could probably do with a better calibre of player to achieve.
Comments
The football they play going forward is no worse than Pelle’s, but they have all the defensive intensity and structure that (I fear) a Pelle team will never have.
That'll learn 'im.
And this season has started with a damp squib punctuated by many of the exact same failings of last time round.
Pelle is given a pretty easy ride IMO. He is paid far more and given far more transfer funds than any of our previous three PL managers. The fans (those who are not overly enamoured) deserve far more IMO.
When you look at the side, players like Zabaleta, Ogbonna, Cresswell, Masuaku, Noble, Snodgrass, Rice, Antonio, Lanzini, Hernandez etc have all been regulars under Pelle, & all were regulars for the club before Pelle arrived. So, in many ways, he is still transitioning the side. Five of those have been here since the summer of 2015.
I can understand both you & jay's views. I think you could both make a fair argument by being underwhelmed depending on what you were expecting. Performances have been incredibly inconsistent.
I would say, if you sign a 3 year contract, that suggests it is a 3 year project. If they wanted him to achieve greatness in 12 months he would have signed a one year deal. I think they expect, during his third season, things to be clicking if they haven't done so sooner. This season, for me, would be another solid season if we finished in the top 10 again & put in a better showing in the FA Cup (not losing so embarrassingly to a lower league side).
#dreamteam
Again perhaps a matter of opinion. On paper (offensively only), yes I would say so.
In practice defensively no, and offensively on occasion, yes.
We’ve seen virtually no evidence of it this season IMO
Hoof it up and start again. :quaver:
It’s the last word of that sentence that continually worries me about Pelle. It’s so rare that I can remember our team closing down and chasing around with the effort and intensity those other teams show. But maybe that will come with time.
I just fear Pelle thinks the answer to everything is great technical attacking play, but it clearly isn’t.
I think finishing 9th to 11th this season doesn’t necessarily represent progress from one of the highest paid managers in the league.
But at the end of the season the daves may need to decide whether they plan to go beyond 3 years with him (as he will only have a year left) - and likewise vice versa for Pelle - ie if this “project” is worth persevering with
I personally am hoping the daves have set him a stiff target of 7th or 8th this season. Because he won’t be able to achieve that unless he sorts us out defensively
We need stability, six managers in less than ten years hasn't done us any favours.
I can't pinpoint when football adopted this 'only instant success is acceptable' outlook, but you'd have thought by now that fans would have realised that playing musical chairs with managers has seldom been a recipe for success. I'm with ASLEF - let Pelle get on with rebuilding the club the way he envisions it.
I saw enough last season to feel that the growing pains were worth the effort.
We see other managers at other clubs coming in and making almost instant changes, but that's, I think, a bit misleading. Klopp & Guardiola come in and make what feels like immediate change, but they have hundreds of millions to spend each year. I think there is a perception that Leicester have had that change with Rodgers, but actually they haven't really (IMO) lived up to their reputation in the media so far. Wolves have been building for a few years under Nuno in the Championship.
When I think of clubs who have regular managerial changes (particularly when those managers differ philosophically), I think of people like Southampton, Newcastle, Palace, Watford, Leicester, Swansea, West Brom, Stoke. That's not a group I want to be linked to in any way.