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Comments
But I see no signs of him improving our defensive shape and the effort levels that we put into defending. It’s as bad as it was under Moyes and Bilic, IMO.
I don’t agree with the idea that we should judge Pelle last season, this season or even next season on exactly where we finish in the league. There are lots of factors that go into that. Like others, I’m more concerned with a long-term ambition to change the fundamentals of how we play.
I just hope there’s more to Pelle’s long-term ambition than pretty attacking football, because we’re so weak at the back and have been for a long time.
Perhaps he’s focusing on improving us going forward first and will get round to the defence later on :whistle:
:stats:
(Promise I’m not only saying this to use my new smiley)
Go on. Dare ya.
Pelle has the fourth best win % of any permanent manager in our history.
Bonds 43.6%, Paynter 41.3%, Pardew 41.1%, Pelle 40.0%
:stats:
A pretty condescending comment to be honest
We backed him with a lot of money (for us) and we had a acceptable season where we weren't in a relegation scrap like previous years but we didnt exactly push on
Now we have backed him again (net spend is lower but £70m on two players is ridiculous for us) and I fully expect this year for him to improve us. I see klopp and Guardiola have been referenced above, both of whom showed remarkable 2nd seasons as they started getting in the players they want
While we dont have the type of base squad of those two, or the money they had to improve, but we've given Pellegrini a lot of money for a club in our position and brought in players that he wants (then Husillos got most if not all of these deals done)...so while we arent going to win the league or challenge top 4 any time soon, we still need to see year by year progression to believe in Pellegrinis plan
My worry is the lack of balance between offence and defense. It's no coincidence that the top two are teams that conceed the least and score the most likewise the likes of Arsenal or Chelsea who are either too top heavy (Arsenal) or too defence heavy (Chelsea) have struggled despite world class squads
Leicester, Wolves and Everton are our competition, and while none are perfect you dont really see those three getting turned over and battered how we do
Pellegrini has time to fix it, but if we are sitting here in a years time with the same problems then questions have to be asked of why they havent been addressed
I can't see how my comment could be construed as condescending, and it certainly wasn't intended to be so.
As to 'not supported' I guess it depends on what you are looking for.
Here: https://www.ticketgum.com/blog/premier-league-clubs-changed-manager/, for example, analyses figures to 17/18, and argues:
I was curious about this, so I looked it up.
Not sure exactly how you mean 'turned over and battered' but I looked at games where we conceded 3 or more goals.
West Ham lost 4 league games last season where the opposition scored 3 or more.
Liv 4 - 0 WH
Ars 3 - 1 WH
WH 0 - 4 Man City
Wolves 3 - 0 WH
(We ourselves put 4 past Watford, Burnley and Huddersfield)
Our record against each of City and Liverpool was a 5-1 loss on aggregate.
Is that the sort of 'turned over and battered' you were meaning?
Tell me now before I go and compare the other clubs you named. :thumbsup:
:stats:
Perhaps it might be an idea to read such comments properly before rushing into a response?
No-one that I can see has stated a wish for Pelle to go. Some (like me) think that Pelle is found wanting defensively and has (even now) had enough time to at least show signs of improvement in this this area compared to the pre-Pelle era.
Finally, the daves do not sack managers on a whim. Of the last three, only one was sacked.
Now that is condescending.
My comment was a general one, which you appear to have taken personally. That wasn't how it was intended.
But seeing that no-one at all seems to have suggested changing our manager, I’m not exactly clear to whom the chopping and changing manager comments are supposed to have been directed at.
"Wolves have been building for a few years under Nuno in the Championship"
Not wishing to nit-pick but Nuno Espírito Santo joined Wolves at the end of May 2017 so he's really only had a little over two seasons.
Mind you he does have an unfair advantage with that name - he's got God on his side. :biggrin:
And they have also thrown a huge amount of money at it too.
although at least our owners are homegrown.
I think the difference with Wolves though is that they assembled an expensive squad under Nuno that was by far the best in the Championship, which essentially gave them a years run up for the Premier League. I take your point that he achieved change quickly, but I also think that most Championship sides would be confident of achieving quick change with the level of investment they had.
Just so I can use the stats smiley, here's some analysis:
Wolves spent a net of 16.46 million in 2017/18, which was the highest in the Championship, and included the £15m signing of Ruben Neves, who was a ridiculous coup for a Championship side.
Not only was it the highest in the championship, but the media net spend that season was £0.57m. A 'normal' upper limit that could be expected, statistically, would be £11.73m, which means Wolves were the only club in the deviation that was an outlier in spend.
Essentially, they were statistical freaks in terms of their spend. Which makes Nuno the Midlands version of Pep or Klopp that season.
:stats:
I promise also not to pick your nits again. :biggrin:
Yes it is.
No it isn't
It's just contradiction.
No it isn't.
Compared to our 4 games lost when conceding 3 or more, they lost 5.
Ev 1-3 WHU
Man City 3 - 1 Ev
Ev 2 - 6 Spurs
Ev 1 - 3 Wolves
Newcastle 3 - 2 Ev (only 1 goal in it so not, perhaps, 'battered'*)
City did them 5-1 on aggregate (same as us) and Spurs did them 8-4.
So not much difference between them and us.
Leicester's
Got beaten with 3 or more goals scored against them 5 times.
Bournth 4-2 Leics
Ars 3 - 1 Leics
Wolves 4 - 3 Leics* (1 goal in it, but they did conceded 4 so could be 'battered'?)
Spurs 3 - 1 Leics
Leics 1 - 4 Palace :nonono:
The biggest aggregate trouncing was Palace. 5-1!!
All those are much the same, really, compared to WHU.
Finally, Wolves, which is where we see a difference:
Only lost 3 games by conceding 3 goals.
Wolves 2 - 3 Spurs*
Man City 3 - 0 Wolves
Saints 3 - 1 Wolves.
So, your premise doesn't stand, except in the case of Wolves.
Wonder if the famous 'second season syndrome' will impact?
I cant say I watch 90 minutes for the above team but theirs looks a lot less comprehensive one side losses
When you compare the defensive record of the 3 in terms of in the league standing:
5th Everton 46 conceeded (14 clean sheets)
6th Wolves 46 conceeded (9 clean sheets)
7th Leicester 48 conceeded (10 clean sheets)
....
12th West Ham 55 conceeded (7 clean sheets)
So yea perhaps we weren't turned over as much as I thought but the evidence suggests that defensively we are the inferior team of the group and the only team with negative goal difference of the 4
Both Rodgers and Silva are in their second seasons so interesting to see who has the greatest improvement of those two and Pellegrini
One solution would be for the manager to adopt a more defensive approach if we go a couple of goals down (which will inevitable happen now and again), rather than throw on all our attacking players and just go for it.
But that would divide opinion too, I think.
I'd definitely like to end the season (and future seasons) with a positive goal difference.
Past seasons
14/15 -3
15/16 +14 :wahoo:
16/17 -17
17/18 -20
18/19 -3