Brentford(H) Monday 20th October 8pm (3pm in USA east coast)

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Comments

  • thornburyironthornburyiron
    There are protests against the board but over the past few years we must have spent well over £500M on new players. During that time we’ve had different managers and coaches, different recruitment consultants but are we forgetting that one constant in that time has been our sporting director.
    I know we all idolise Noble but I have no idea what he actually does nor whether he has any say in what goes on but if he doesn’t why is here there. If he does, has he had any involvement in who we sign. I hope he hasn’t because I’d hate to think he’s responsible for the dross we’ve spent money on
  • LukerzLukerz
    edited October 21
    The squad has been badly assembled over a period of time. This is not something you can sort with a managerial change. Lop - Potter - Nuno. These don’t resolve the issues. They are firefighters as opposed to resolvers. Some of these players were battered under Moyes, battered under Lop & then battered under Potter.

    We have spent £115m on our back four - it is pound for pound the worst defence in the PL. How have we managed to get into a situation where 3 of our CM options are Souček, Irving & Rodríguez? Fernandes & Magassa may be promising players with potential, but they are not to be relied upon, consistently, now. How do we still not have a striker, yet two players in their mid 30s? How do we still not have a reliable goalkeeper?

    It is a mess of a squad, & beyond Nuno. That 30 minute period yesterday where we could not deal with even a physical challenge at 50%, was among the most disgraceful I have seen. It’s not about ability & quality (which we also don’t have), it is about the basics of football - winning your duals, being strong, wanting to head/tackle/mark/block. We are not doing any of those. But it’s not ‘fine margins’ or whatever other cliche you throw out; we are nowhere near doing any of those things. We are nowhere near competing.

    It’s not a simple ‘switch to man for man marking’. It’s not a simple ‘change formation’. It’s not a simple ‘bring in Magassa’. This is an issue in the foundations of our side & a mentality ingrained into these players, add to that the signings we have made - & players we now have - are just not good enough. There is no personality, resilience, bite, aggression, desire or just general competitiveness. I have not known a West Ham side with so little about it. No players worth watching, no players worth liking, no players with magic, no players who take no prisoners. There is nothing about this side & when you add the sedated stadium, it’s just sleepwalking to relegation &, to be honest, I am not sure how far we can fall at this moment.
  • Giant_HammerGiant_Hammer
    Thank you Steve and Mrs Grey for your good wishes. I’m doing ok thank you. I was got to hospital very quickly and they were excellent. It made all the difference as it could have been a very different outcome.
  • SlackerSlacker
    I didn’t post directly after the match because tbh I couldn’t find the words and I’m still pretty much the same now.
    Where do you start after watching that performance? I can only think/ hope that last night was when we hit rock bottom and things will start to improve, at the time of writing I can’t honestly see it and Friday night could be a horror show but surely those players will have had a long look in the mirror and at least roll their sleeves up and fight
  • buffybegoodbuffybegood
    edited October 21
    The mess we're in, and my goodness it is one hell of a mess, is down to one man, and one man only, Sullivan. I could write a huge long post, about how he's played at being Director of Football for too many years, eventually realised he wasn't up to it because Moyes was letting the squad age and we were slowly inching towards a squad of geriatrics, panicked and brought in Steidten, cheaped out as usual by getting in J-Lo, let both of them waste huge amounts of budget on defenders that just weren't up to it and strikers who were past it, then brought in Potter and then Nuno simply because they wouldn't need buying out of contracts.

    We've overpaid for too many players so that there's not enough budget to go around to get the players we've needed; it's not that we've not spent money, we've just spent it so very badly, and with no long term plan. I don't think I've ever, including the Grant season, felt like we're going down this early in a season.
  • SlackerSlacker
    I’m no Sullivan apologist, neither do I pay a small fortune to go to games but here’s a thought.
    Imagine yourself as a chairman of a football club. Your current manager is out of contract and the former manager of the Spanish national side, Real Madrid and has Premier League experience is available. I think most would employ him wouldn’t they?Then once in position you’d back his judgement in the transfer market based on his experience.
    I really don’t think we can blame Sullivan.
  • OutcastLondonerOutcastLondoner
    Slacker, I think that’s exactly why we could blame Sullivan. It’s reactive action rather than a planned one. The manager who is available might not be the manager who suits the players. We keep rotating players, mangers and coaching staff regardless of the whether they are suited to each other. There’s never any continuity.
  • alderzalderz
    edited October 21
    I think it's wrong to pin the blame on any one person / group. The board are massively at fault, the players have been awful for a long time, previous managers and heads of recruitment have been allowed to waste a fortune on players that aren't good enough, and last night Nuno made some absolutely baffling calls. And whilst I understand the sentiment behind the protests and the silence in the stadium, it also doesn't help the situation on the pitch (not a dig at the fans at all).

    The entire club is in an absolute state.
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    thornburyiron said:

    2-0. Absolutely disgraceful display. Everyone should hold their heads in shame. Can’t see us winning another game this calendar year.

    Hedging your bets there thorn? 😂
  • thornburyironthornburyiron
    Buffy et al nobody ever seems to mention Noble. He is supposed to be director of football. If he’s not doing the job and Sullivan is, as you suggest, acting in the role then Nobes is getting money under false pretences and should resign. If he is doing the job then he’s not very good at it and should be fired and we get an experienced one in.
  • thornburyironthornburyiron
    IH the way we’ve been this calendar year we could end up with more managers than wins.
  • buffybegoodbuffybegood
    edited October 21
    thornburyiron said:

    Buffy et al nobody ever seems to mention Noble. He is supposed to be director of football. If he’s not doing the job and Sullivan is, as you suggest, acting in the role then Nobes is getting money under false pretences and should resign. If he is doing the job then he’s not very good at it and should be fired and we get an experienced one in.

    Noble has a role, but it's not to guide the whole club in a chosen direction, I think it's more liasing with the different age groups within the club, looking for suitable loans for the players coming through, that sort of thing. He's definitely not been given the sort of power you're suggesting he has, to buy players and bring in managers, as far as I know.
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    thornburyiron said:

    IH the way we’ve been this calendar year we could end up with more managers than wins.

    True dat.
  • OutcastLondonerOutcastLondoner
    thornburyiron said:

    Buffy et al nobody ever seems to mention Noble. He is supposed to be director of football. If he’s not doing the job and Sullivan is, as you suggest, acting in the role then Nobes is getting money under false pretences and should resign. If he is doing the job then he’s not very good at it and should be fired and we get an experienced one in.

    I think most of us don’t take Noble’s role that seriously. It always felt like more of an ambassador role to keep him involved in the club and to work with the academy, rather than one with much influence on the first team.
  • EXETERHAMMEREXETERHAMMER
    I think at this moment in time, we are more likely to go down than stay up.

    I haven't thought that for many a season. It feels real today. I have had 3 different people tell me we are in trouble who would usually say. 'West Ham will be ok'.

    We need a win on Friday.
  • everhopefuleverhopeful
    I will be the first person to make an excuse. We were against a superior team, the ref was poor, ,VAR was against us, we hit the post. Yesterday I could not find anything approaching an excuse. It was the worst performance I have seen in 60 years. That made me very sad! There were a lot of sad middle aged people in the Stratford Travelodge! That is all!
  • chicagohammerchicagohammer
    As you probably are aware the other half of my family are staunch Sunderland fans and when we had some Mackems visit us in the summer they brought my son the latest shirt.

    I think I must have vexed us as I teased him relentlessly asking why he would want the relegation shirt……I am pretty confident that is going to bite me in the you know where…
  • chicagohammerchicagohammer
    Still thinking about his selections, did we upset him in a previous life? It was reminiscent of when I took over Chelsea in Football Manager 98 and relegated them
  • claretandblueskyclaretandbluesky
    I think the reason relegation feels so likely is in the past we have had a better side on paper than those around us, but this time we are really poor.

    We are strong on the wings with Bowen and Summerville, we have two decent full backs and we have Paquetta who can put in a good match or two every half dozen, but aside from that I cant think of any strength at all. Once Bowen and Paqueta got sold I don't feel we would compete that well in the championship even.
  • OutcastLondonerOutcastLondoner
    I think Paqueta is one of our worst players and we will be better once we drop him.

    Don’t really get why there’s such a big difference in how people rate him and Benrahma
  • YeoldhammerYeoldhammer
    edited October 21
    chicagohammer said:

    Still thinking about his selections, did we upset him in a previous life? It was reminiscent of when I took over Chelsea in Football Manager 98 and relegated them

    You shouldn't think too much about it, it really doesn't matter who he puts out, the majority of these players are Championship level. The entire spine of the team CB / CM / Striker is completely out of its depth at this level.

    Its easy for the opposition to negate our fullbacks and wingers when they can walk to the edge of the box through the middle of the pitch.

    I don't think we will go down with less than what Southampton achieved last season but I would be surprised to see this team reach 30 points. Leicester and Ipswich went down with 22 and 25, I think that's probably roughly what we will pick up.

    You have to keep in the back of your mind the home games we have lost so far. The away games in the second half of the season are going to be a lot tougher.

    As poor of a team selection it was, Marshall and Scarles getting minutes is good albeit Scarles in the wrong position... but its PL minutes and its what these lads need for the Championship push next season as these guys maybe the cornerstone of what happens next season, once relegation clauses are activated and a number of players can all be moved on hopefully for the complete rebuild.
  • KuchinghammerKuchinghammer
    We're back to hoofball, and it wasn't pretty. We started ok, then from 30 minutes on it was embarrassing. Nuno tried to be too clever in his line up, but a flukey goal would have changed the mood completely. Sometimes football is a horrible sport to watch.
  • LukerzLukerz
    We started really well, zipping the ball about 1 & 2 touch. The issue we have is it does not take much for us to end up on the back foot & desperate. It usually just takes a long ball aimed at our defence. From that we usually either 1) concede or 2) concede a set play, then we are camped in for 15 minutes struggling to survive the most basic of deliveries. Nearly every ball into our box was met by a Brentford head & some of the marking from Todibo & Kilman was non-existent.

    The side is lightweight. Even Summerville, who was our brightest player, runs with the ball before usually being outmuscled.
  • buffybegoodbuffybegood
    Lukerz said:

    The side is lightweight. Even Summerville, who was our brightest player, runs with the ball before usually being outmuscled.

    The problem is that Summerville is having to start his runs from so deep, so it's difficult to go all that way and then get an end result. It's a problem we've had in the past (eg during bad spells under Moyes).
  • LukerzLukerz
    edited 9:19AM
    To add - & I think most fans are realising this now - the players are rubbish.

    The amount of raving people did about Todibo, yet he’s not had a good game from what I can remember.

    I thought Kilman would be a good signing, he’s been dreadful. I got that one wrong.

    Diouf, people claiming he’s amazing because he can cross a ball & runs fast. Problem is he can’t defend. Doesn’t get tight to wingers, turns his back & never stops crosses coming in.

    Hermansen & Fernandes - £60m spent on two relegated players. How are they expected to impact our side in the short-term with those losing mentalities? Magassa - again, he’s 20/21.

    Summerville - again, can be bright, how many games, goals & assists from him in 18 months?

    Paquetá - how many goals in 4 years has he got, that aren’t penalties? How many assists in 4 years?

    Füllkrug - do we just love signing players who don’t know how to score or stay fit?

    Don’t mention the squad players - Potts, Marshall, Wilson, Irving, Rodríguez, Igor, Scarles, KWP, Mavropanos, Guilherme, JWP. It’s a Championship bench.

    It leaves AWB, Bowen & Souček. No wonder we are the worst side in the league (minus Wolves). It is a dreadful squad of players. Nuno has his work cut out to even get another 3 points this season.
  • FortuneseekerFortuneseeker
    @Lukerz, IMHO you can't include Soucek as a positive now that is of course if you are. I agree with you about signing three players who have just experienced relegation last season.

    A few of us saw this coming but when we commented on it were met with criticism. I take absolutely no pleasure in appearing atm to be proved correct. I am really concerned we haven't got enough within the squad to rectify this but hope NES can manage to get us safe but it's going to be stressful. The way the club is run has contributed to this mess especially when you look at the likes of how Brighton are doing, are they a bigger club than us?

    Football in yesteryear you could change managers and they could work with the players as the game wasn't as technical as it is now. We got in who what JLo wanted including Kilman, then Potter decided he wanted rid of those that didn't suit his way of playing now NES has to try to make the squad he has been given successful. I am sure Coufal & Emerson would be more suited to a relegation fight than some of our defenders. Oh to be able to clone Craig Dawson.
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