The Arnie situation - one thread to rule them all...

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  • edited January 2019
    Who doesn't? ;cool
  • But then why would Arnie leave, we have the best Rice in the country ;run
  • And the best Ham in the West
  • Hamstew said:

    It is strange but why should he lie for him.

    Was thinking more from the club's point of view. Would usually imagine they wouldn't want a player talking about future of another player.

    Nothing wrong with what Antonio said, it's just surprising considering how clubs try to manage news.
  • No I agree I said it's strange. But was just thinking why should he lie for him. The players are probably fed up with him sulking about on the pitch.
  • It’s all very annoying ;angry
  • Perhaps it's not so strange. Perhaps Antonio is trying to provoke a falling out with the club in order to engineer his own move to China.

    #conspiracytheoriesrus
  • In some ways it’s good for the club he said it. If he says that all the players know it then if we do sell him the response from fans will be that he engineered it, rather than we cashed in
  • Every time a situation like this comes up, I feel that some information is missing. Since Bosman's case in the European Courts, the situation has evolved into the following situation for every professional footballer in Europe. For simplicity's sake, I will imagine that I have been offered a contract to play for West Ham:

    West Ham agree to pay me 50,000 every week in return for me being a West Ham player. For this salary, I have some obligations, including playing when selected, following dietary, health and training advice given by West Ham's relevant professionals, and a certain amount of publicity work (appearances at the shop, autographing a dozen shirts or so, trips to hospitals, etc. This is usually defined as a set number per season.)

    West Ham sign a contract, let's say, until the end of 2023. The contract is binding. But what if I don't want to exclude the opportunity of playing for Barcelona in the Champions' League final, or earning 600,000 per week at Beijing Sinobo Guoan (thank you, Uncle Google!). Maybe Pellegrino will be sacked next year for only reaching fifth place, and I won't like the new manager. So, I ask for a release clause to be put into the contract. West Ham don't want to make it too easy for me to go, so they say that I can go if I pay them, say, 15 million. Or they may insist that it can only be triggered after, say, two years.

    So, if any other team agree to pay my release clause, I can go and play for them. Of course, there are other conditions set by the Premier League and UEFA about when who can talk to whom, how, and through whom, but the point is this: If Juventus offer me 175,000 a week, and tell me they'll pay my release clause fee, West Ham just have to sit quiet and wait.

    Therefore, if Arnautovic's brother is telling West Ham to take the 35 million, his release fee is higher, or cannot be triggered yet. Therefore, the ball is very much in West Ham's court. Of course, as Payet showed us, Marko might develop a "niggling back injury", or just play terribly.
  • The Bosman case isn't relevant? It related to players at the end of their contracts.

    Furthermore, they Bosman ruling only relates to EU players moving between clubs in the EU.
  • edited January 2019
    MrsGrey said:

    The Bosman case isn't relevant? It related to players at the end of their contracts.

    Furthermore, they Bosman ruling only relates to EU players moving between clubs in the EU.

    It is relevant. West Ham's influence over Arnautovic ends when his contract is up.

    In addition, it is directly due to the Bosman ruling that players have more say in their movement, which means that if Dagenham and Redbridge roll up and offer Cristiano Ronaldo a racehorse and a Wagon Wheel every day, the only thing standing in his way is the termination fee in his contract with Juventus.
  • edited January 2019
    I don't see it, sorry. Bosman is about what restrictions a club can put on a player who is effectively out of contract. When the term of the contract is at an end.

    Unless I've misunderstood your post.

    How does it give players more power in contract negotiations?

    While your Ronaldo example is accurate, how does that relate to the Bosman ruling? What's standing in his way is the terms of the contract he is still bound by - as is his club. So if he has a release clause, that will pertain. If he doesn't, then he can't go if the club says he can't. The Bosman ruling is not in any way applicable to that example.
  • Interestingly that Marko got 4 goals in his first 6 games, and has only scored 3 in the last 10, 2 of which against Brighton

    In fact the last time Arnie scored prior to Brighton was against Burnley on the 3rd November

    I know injuries played a large part in the above stats but the above form isn't exactly doom and gloom should he leave

    The problem we have is replacing him should the move happen (£50mil minimum)

    Wilson won't be allowed to leave Bournemouth, Batshuyai is unpredictable, Origi is flat out just not good enough.

    Marega is a good shout but is expensive and probably would prefer to stay at Porto
  • MrsGrey ;ok

    The Bosman ruling simple means Free transfer, meaning players could move to a new club at the end of their contract without their old club receiving a fee. Players can now agree a pre-contract with another club for a free transfer if the players' contract with their existing club has six months or less remaining.

  • MrsGrey
    You misunderstood my post. Apology accepted.
  • The fact is Arnie has no release clause and has a contract till 2022, so the Bosman rule here is pretty irrelevant

    If the point is regarding whether we can hold onto Arnie untill that time then yes we can...but why would we?

    We'd be paying a guy £100k p/week (£12mil over 2.5 years) who would most likely underperform whilst wanting out while missing out on a lump sum (over £40mil) so in total we would make min a net loss of £50mil if we keep him till his contract runs out

    That's the whole reason we sold Payet, because it was the best situation we could get for a player who wanted out
  • actually if it means Hernandez gets a good run in the team and stays, I don't mind
  • Arnie has not stayed any of the Clubs for long and should be sold before his petulance and becomes disruptive. With £5 million (or more) we should be able to get a decent replacement. I don't think he will stay in China for long either and will have a take a big pay cut to return to European football. Will any European team trust him? He can also say goodbye to his international place. I read somewhere that Payet may also be heading to China and they should be able to share their tales of petulence.
  • MrsGrey
    You misunderstood my post. Apology accepted.

    Then what did you mean?
  • Pengeman

    ASLEF posted the stats that show it is 3+ years at each of his last clubs; that's hardly 'flighty', is it?
  • Pengeman, I think you are being a bit harsh?

    He's not been/being petulant with us, as far as I can see.

    He's doing his job, then someone comes in with an offer of a new, better paid job.
    Which is quite common in his industry.

    He wants to take it.

    He's not downed tools, or come out and said he won't play for us again.
    In fact, he's not said anything, publicly.
    Privately, we assume, he has asked the club to let him take the new job.
    Meanwhile, he trains, he plays. He behaves properly.

    I find it hard to criticise him too much tbh.
  • Arnie is petulant, it is in his nature. In some ways this helps his game.

    Although yesterday he wasn't disruptive on the pitch, I just felt he was just not 'with' the rest of the team emotionally.
  • Don’t get me wrong I want him to stay because where a better side with him in it than without, that said he is not irreplaceable and provided we get the best offer to reinvest then for me he can leave, I trust pelle has a list of players to replace him with so I say thanks for the memories arnie and good luck with your new pay cheque because that’s all he’d be going for because at career end I doubt a Chinese cup and league double will hold to much weight you could probably buy a medal cheaply and think I could still perform at that level and I’m 55 now
  • Nah! ;wink
  • Lots of talk on twitter saying Arnie has a gambling problem and the owners have already paid off some debt before and won't be doing it again.
  • Whilst it would make sense with regard China being attractive at such an early stage it is hard to imagine that even if he liked a bet that it could become a problem with what must be massive wages. These things can take on a life of their own on twitter.
  • Surely a addictive habit needs rehab unless he owes that much he needs all the money he can get coming in to pay them off but without help it’s pointless, I have an alcoholic brother who I’m proud of because 18 years xmas gone without a drop inside him so I’ve been there and seen what an addiction can do to you and your family
  • ;clap to your bro
  • Thanks matey, he made me laugh one night we were out about five year ago he said I envey you I said why you on 50k plus a year live in a half million pound house, he said you can have ten pints tonight wake up in the morning and not have a drink for a week, where as I can have one and won’t come off it for a week to see the change in him is unbelievable though
  • Excellent I think it's good people can come through these things and then joke about them rather than hide them away. My mother in law suffered from depression before I met my wife but she can talk and joke about it now. I think it helps her not to feel embarrassed about it.
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