The relegation battle - get out of my league!

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  • Sorry everyone, the stats seem to have gone out of align ment but I hope you can still understand them. ;biggrin
  • edited April 2018
    Interesting Giant ;ok

    Certainly the last two seasons have been bad with the club showing no real progress, in fact we are regressing.

    3 of those seasons we were pretty comfy (2012/13, 2014/15 and 2015/16). The other three we have basically been in a relegation battle for most of it. 2013/14 we were until we won 4 on the spin in February.

    But the last two seasons have been the big alarm bells. 7th in the final season at the Boleyn to 11th and now 15th since moving to the LS. Needs to be addressed before we go down. We'll end up being like Villa and Sunderland. Several seasons where the warning signs were there, not addressed and then the inevitable relegation.
  • So an average league position of 11th since promotion.

    Not too bad on the face of it.

    But it does suggest that we are a bang average Premier League team, which I think most of us accept. Two problems for me, however:

    1. Based on the last two seasons, that have involved two relegation scraps, we appear to be regressing.

    2. Bang average at the Boleyn felt ok. It's all I've been used to. Bang average in a stadium that I don't like against a back drop of unachievable ambition of the part of the board, however, leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
  • What we have to consider also is the fact that now the PL has become highly skewed. I saw a comment which said that outside of the top six there was “nothing” and any of the remaining 14 could easily get relegated. Interesting point.
  • edited April 2018
    Baracks ;ok

    It's good that the big 4 has now become the Big 6, but I agree, outside of that you're left playing for the hope of 7th place being enough Europa League qualification.

    Which makes me wonder why more clubs (like us) don't go all out for a cup, as that represents our only real chance of success. Most clubs, however, seems to sacrifice that opportunity to concentrate staying in a league that, realistically, they can't compete in (other than to stay in it) ;hmm

    All about the money though I guess.
  • edited April 2018
    OCS

    But clubs towards the further end of cup competitions do pretty much go all out for it. And mostly they lose out to one of the 'top 6'.

    In earlier stages, it is a decent opportunity to give squad players or younger players a game.

    In the end, I don't think it would matter how 'all out' any club went for a cup; there is no way of controlling the draw, and in the latter stages you are likely to come up against one or more of the top teams.

    I think you could put a squad together to have a reasonable expectation of finishing upper mid-table, but not to win a cup, which, for all bar one of the top teams, will be their only chance of silverware in any season.
  • I saw another comment yesterday

    “Horrible season, horrible football - get rid”

    This from a supporter of a club with 10 more points than us - I think you can guess the club

    ;lol
  • I get your point Grey, but I would argue that there's a consensus within the football community that clubs make staying in the Premier League a priority over progression in the cups. I would certainly put us in that category this season.

    I know it's almost inevitable that the West Hams and Newcastles of this world will meet a Man City or Liverpool in the later stages, and that our chances of actually winning a trophy are pretty slim, but I can't help but think that Premier League survival will always take priority.

    I don't know, sometimes I think I'd rather we did a Wigan; win a trophy and be relegated, rather than win nothing and just bob around half-way up the league season after season. But that may be because I was six months old the last time we won a major trophy and have absolutely no recollection of it.
  • edited April 2018
    Those 11th 12th 13th 15th place finishes were probably 1 or 2 points from being 5 places lower.

    We moved stadiums to enable us to better that difference not just position wise but point wise, that we should be sitting where Burnley are currently, that come the end of the season we are a good 10 points ahead of the 'Majority' of "the rest." with maybe 1 or 2 close for comfort like an Everton and Leicester.

    Instead we are trailing wayyyyy behind to the point of questioning why we bothered moving stadiums as there has been on the whole zero benefit other than an increased capacity at a significant viewing disadvantage.

  • In my mind, as far as this board certainly are concerned, its all about survival, with the sky money propping everything up, and working out the way to make most money out of that scenario.
    Sully and Gold have done just exactly that
    Sold our home for no good reason as I have been saying since the sale went through.
    If a European league doesnt rear its head in the next few years, then expect more of the same, because thats what we will be getting, only in soulless rented stadium, with our owners using us purely as an investment strategy.
    Imagine Stratford half empty if we go down this year, or next ??
    I'm fed up with it - its all starting to get a bit pointless really.
  • But being a football supporter IS pointless, so I don't see how it can get MORE pointless.

    I don't support West Ham in the expectation of success.

    I don't support West Ham in the expectation of progressive improvement.

    I don't support West Ham because I feel entitled to flowing football, or a major say in how the club is run.

    I support West Ham because I can't help it.

    If I could help it, I would stop, and remove one of the very few sources of angst and frustration from my generally remarkably contented existence.

    if people can walk away from the club because they've got the hump with the owners/manager/colour scheme/lack of traditional food vendors in the vicinity of the stadium/other... good for them.

    I'm not there yet, and don't suppose I ever will be.
  • We can only judge whether the move to the London Stadium was a success by seeing how we’ve progressed over the term if the lease.

    Let’s meet up in 97 years and discuss...
  • This will be the problem that will rage on - we have gone from being relegation candidates in an owned stadium to relegation candidates in a rented athletics stadium. There will be continued discontent unless

    a ) the daves invest in a manager who is a significant step up and back him to the tune of £100m

    Or

    b ) they sell up and give someone else a go who has far deeper pockets

    Problem with a ) is I don’t believe they have the financial muscle - plus there are no guarantees of an outcome as is proven by the Everton case.

  • Those 11th 12th 13th 15th place finishes were probably 1 or 2 points from being 5 places lower.

    No. We would not have dropped more than two places if we had achieved two points less.
  • edited April 2018

    Grey said


    I support West Ham because I can't help it.

    If I could help it, I would stop, and remove one of the very few sources of angst and frustration from my generally remarkably contented existence.

    if people can walk away from the club because they've got the hump with the owners/manager/colour scheme/lack of traditional food vendors in the vicinity of the stadium/other... good for them.

    I'm not there yet, and don't suppose I ever will be.
    And therein lies the rub. I'm exactly the same.
    ;weep
  • A quick reality check

    We're not Sunderland who have plummeted two tiers in two seasons

    We're not Leyton Orient who went from a penalty kick away from the Championship to the Conference in three seasons

    We're not Leeds who went from losing a 2001 Champions League semi against Valencia to losing the 2008 League 1 playoff final to Doncaster Rovers and haven't played in the Premier League for 14 seasons

    Being a Hammer isn't so bad
  • A quick reality check

    We're not Sunderland who have plummeted two tiers in two seasons

    Yet... ;whistle
  • edited April 2018
    Selling the Boleyn is the difference for me.
    In a weird way, as long as it was there, I had a link to my past, and was happy supporting them in whatever league we were in. I was a season ticket holder for over 14 years. the football was often rubbish, but you could often laugh at it because we were West Ham, a yo yo club with occasional flashes of brilliance, and occasional class players.
    We sort of 'knew our place' in the pecking order of things, lost to some terrible teams, and beat the best on our day, and, despite some dodgy owners, we were never ridiculous.
    My current feelings of angst were probably triggered by my new sonof asking me why I supported West Ham, when most of the kids and grown ups in our village support the mighty Argyle, and even get to go to some of the matches. When I was explaining to him about my long relationship with the club,I realised that all I could tell him about was our history, I couldnt give him any hope for the future that we might win anything, or that our stadium would be any good - (because I dont believe it myself !). I remember my Dad being able to enthuse me when I was a nipper, and I could memorise the team. I wanted to be able to pass on my spark, but I was sorry to find it at such a low ebb. My first visit to the Boleyn when I was six (under lights vs Burnley Feb '63) is etched in my memory, the sight of all that green and the noise of the crowd are indelibly printed on my conciousness.

    Now its gone - and for what ?
    I'll never forgive that, or the conniving ....... that run our club currently. (insert your own words - I have many)

    There, got that off my chest - I've not given up quite yet, looking forward to the summer and the natural delights living in Cornwall can bring, and hopefully I'll be drawn like a moth to the flame next season.

    I couldnt care less if we get relegated though - the table wont lie - and, for me, Moyes is not the man we need, but is probably the one we'll get.

    Over and out ;ok
  • “We were never ridiculous...........

    I have never forgotten the very first big screen at Upton Park, it looked like the front window at Rediffusion where someone had stacked 12 tellies together to make a cube.

    And don,t get me started on the Hammerettes........ ;wink
  • edited April 2018
    This weekend really is massive. We blew our chance to take the pressure off v Stoke, which meant a point at Arsenal would've been invaluable. We blew that too.

    I think we can all agree we expect to lose to Man City, and it could be a scary result. They had nothing to play for last weekend and hammered Swansea 5-0.

    So with no points and a possible battering to our GD again, it means that a victory for Saints and we are in massive trouble. We all expect Stoke to not win at Anfield and WBA are gone. Swansea have Chelsea, but winnable games after that. Huddersfield have Everton, but losable games to follow.

    I think the general feel is that we are quite calm at the moment, but I really feel we are in massive trouble following our failure to beat Stoke. Imagine had Carroll not scored in the last minute either? Personally I think we're relying on Huddersfield losing their remaining four games to stay up. Of course, victory at Leicester would do the job. But I can see us taking only 2 points max from our remaining four. Would 37 be enough? I can also see us losing the next three and really don't want a final day decider against Sam.

    But Saints vs Bournemouth is massive for us. I think if Saints fail to win, it leaves them 5/6 points behind with 3 to go (Everton away, Swansea home, Man City home). I don't see them taking 5/6 points from that. They've won twice in the league since October. But I'd say if you are in the relegation battle, and you have any fixtures against either Watford or Bournemouth, you are laughing, because I think they are the perfect two sides to play.
  • edited April 2018
    37 would certainly do it, imo.

    Can Soton get 8 from 12? Shouldn't think so.

    36 will probably do it.

    At the moment, they just need 2 wins to catch us.

    With an extra point, they'd need 2 wins and a draw.

    35 might well do it, given that they finish against Citeh.
  • Wouldn't say City had nothing to play for as they confirmed the Championship. Mind they were cruising.
  • City have everything to play for. They can possibly set about four PL season records and the first of these is most goals scored. I think they're on 98 at the moment and fully expect them to be on at least 100 come tea time Sunday.
  • Lukerz ;ok

    I'm not comfortable at all with how things are. I honestly think we'll lose the next three, and I hate the thought of going into the Everton game needing something, particularly as Rooney owns us.

    It actually feels like we're under more pressure than Southamptom. It's like they have nothing to lose given they're already in the drop zone, so they have to go all out against Bournemouth.

    We, on the other hand, know that we can probably scrape by with a couple of draws, so may be looking to play not to lose rather than going for the win in our remaining games.

    Given how fresh the memory of being relegated with 42 points is, I'm certainly not comfortable that 35 will be enough.
  • edited April 2018
    ;ok OCS

    I feel genuinely fearful of our status.

    Many a team has been awful all season and then had a mini run of 3/4 games at the end and stayed up.

    I just have this fear with Southampton because, on paper, they are a reasonable side. Stoke I am not worried about. Just Saints, and Swansea have a reasonable run of games too. So I worry it’s down to us to secure our status (as it should be), but I don’t trust us to do it.
  • Personally if we are still int he mire by the time we play Leicester then that is the game we need to get the points. They don't have an agenda against us, and they are safe. If we turn up we can beat them.

    I actually think it will be harder to beat Everton on the last day if we are still among it. Everton will be well up for it because of Moyes, Allardyce would love it and our players could be very nervous. Let's hope it doesn't come to it.

    Also now that the Saints are out of the cup, the players will be a lot more focused. I always think players don't want to get suspended/injured before a trip to Wembley. I can see their league performances being vastly improved.
  • If we beat Stoke we wouldnt be in this situation

    Dont expect anything from the next 3, and we are going to survive based on others being worse

    Not ideal
  • A draw on the last day against Everton may hopefully be just be enough to save us.
  • When we beat Man U debate over move on nothing to see here
  • Cuz1 said:

    When we beat Man U debate over move on nothing to see here

    Optimism ;hmm

    Wonder what that's like
This discussion has been closed.