Why does Klopp get so much credit? (And why Slav is a lot better.)
Before the final yesterday, it seemed to me that the meejah consensus was that Klopp had transformed the fortunes of Liverpool FC. After the game, it seems that Klopp has a lot of work to do to transform this bunch of no-hopers into a decent team.
Whichever way it goes, Klopp is brilliant, apparently.
Which led me to wonder, if we compared our squad (7th in the PL) with theirs (8th) how much better would that make Slav?
I took all players who had made 10 or more first team starts as a basis for comparison.
To be totally fair to them, I included lanzini's transfer fee, even though this year we had him on loan.
I'm not going to do any analysis, as I think the figures speak for themselves.
Whichever way it goes, Klopp is brilliant, apparently.
Which led me to wonder, if we compared our squad (7th in the PL) with theirs (8th) how much better would that make Slav?
I took all players who had made 10 or more first team starts as a basis for comparison.
To be totally fair to them, I included lanzini's transfer fee, even though this year we had him on loan.
I'm not going to do any analysis, as I think the figures speak for themselves.
| PLAYER | Apps | Cost (M) | Totals | PLAYER | Apps | Cost | Totals |
| Simon Mignolet (G) | 34 | £9.00 | Adrian (G) | 32 | Free | ||
| £9.00 | Free | ||||||
| Nathaniel Clyne (D) | 33 | £12.50 | Carl Jenkinson (D) | 13 | Loan | ||
| Emre Can (D) | 28 | £10.00 | Angelo Ogbonna (D) | 27 | £8.00 | ||
| Dejan Lovren (D) | 22 | £20.00 | Winston Reid (D) | 24 | £1.00 | ||
| Mamadou Sakho (D) | 21 | £18.00 | James Tomkins (D) | 23 | Academy | ||
| Martin Skrtel (D) | 21 | £6.00 | James Collins (D) | 16 | £2.50 | ||
| Alberto Moreno Perez (D) | 28 | £12.00 | Aaron Cresswell (D) | 37 | £3.75 | ||
| £78.50 | £15.25 | ||||||
| James Milner (M) | 28 | free | Mark Noble (M) | 37 | Academy | ||
| Philippe Coutinho (M) | 24 | £8.50 | Cheikhou Kouyate (M) | 34 | £7.00 | ||
| Adam Lallana (M) | 23 | £25.00 | Dimitri Payet (M) | 29 | £10.70 | ||
| Lucas (M) | 21 | £5.00 | Michail Antonio (M) | 23 | £7.00 | ||
| Jordan Henderson (M) | 15 | £16.00 | Manuel Lanzini (M) | 23 | £7.50 | ||
| Jordon Ibe (M) | 12 | £0.50 | ? | Victor Moses (M) | 13 | Loan | |
| Pedro Obiang (M) | 11 | £4.30 | |||||
| £55.00 | £36.50 | ||||||
| Roberto Firmino (F) | 24 | £29.00 | Diafra Sakho (F) | 18 | £3.50 | ||
| Christian Benteke (F) | 14 | £32.50 | Andy Carroll (F) | 13 | £15.00 | ||
| Daniel Sturridge (F) | 11 | £12.00 | Enner Valencia (F) | 10 | £12.00 | ||
| £73.50 | £30.50 | ||||||
| £216.00 | £82.25 |
Comments
next season its clear out time , defenders being top of the list imo .
Just seems to me an easy out for Klopp (and his 'supporters') to blame the very expensively assembled players.
He could field regulars from a selection worth over £200m, and couldn't get them to play better than us.
of football and never will be , he will be judged on next season and have no excuses after another 150m has been spent , but I do expect them to finish top 4 with no European football to worry about . ;ok
us closing down the space and not allowing teams to tip tap the ball around only in their own half ;biggrin
http://www.whu606.com/discussion/9676/champion-league-and-europa-league-semi-finals-finals#latest
As for the price tags just because Liverpool were willing to spend that on a player doesn't mean that is their true value, Payet is looking decidedly underpriced on £10.7m, Lallana decidedly overpriced on £25m and as for Benteke.......
how good are these big name managers with millions to spend but always fail to deliver season after season , Man city should be dominating the premier league
for the next few years but failed for the last 2 years to win it again Arsenal all the talent cant deliver a title should have gone on to win it this season .
Then Liverpool missed out should have one it 2 years ago but bottled it .
Chelsea this year dreadful .
Then we come to the mighty Manchester united won nothing since Fergy left
may win F.A. cup this season millions spent big name manager is it good enough..
So a team like Leicester winning the title is possible again imo , like west ham
spurs , even Southampton with some investment and a tickle in the right places
who finished very well give anyone a game could they do a Leicester next year ?
These big clubs seem hell bent on paying 40-50-60million for these players
who when it comes down to it don't give value for money over 38 games .
west ham and Leicester have both shown that there is value for money out there
without breaking the bank .
I know he has a good record; I was specifically wondering why he gets so much love in the UK meejah.
Every time Liverpool did well, it was a sign of Klopp's influence and genius. Every time they slipped up, it was a sign of how bad their squad is.
If those players really aren't any better than ours, then there need to be serious questions asked about their recruitment process.
My opinion is that Slav would have done better with those players.
I don't think anyone could have done better with those players because they don't seem to be working as a team together. The recruitment process was a disaster which is why when Klopp took over he insisted that he wanted complete responsibility for transfers rather than the five man "transfer committee"
Don't think that explains why he has been getting a free pass, where it is down to him when they are good, but the players when they aren't.
The media love him because he is a character, he jumps up and down on the sideline, for some reason that overshadows poor tactics.
That doesn't really address the question of why he gets such an easy ride, even if it attempts to explain why his team hasnt been as successful as Slav's in the PL this season.
Also, isn't your point a bit contradictory? If they did it sometimes, then surely the players he had at his disposal could do it?
Moreover, what kind of manager only has one style of play, and needs X hundreds of millions to make it possible?
My point is that Slav, with a significantly weaker squad on paper, did better than Klopp.
I think if they had swapped teams, Slav still would have done better than Klopp.
I think that all managers that go to top 4 clubs get a bigger honeymoon than other clubs as they are not threatened by relegation I think by Xmas Klopp will need to have to a degree delivered otherwise he will start to be scrutinised ;ok
He does get a lot of praise and hasn't been critised like he should but it'd hard not to deny that is not his squad
Talk about the money all you want but those players were just overpriced, he's just the manager it's not on him Rodgers etc to choose the prices for these players
He came in when the season had already started with a squad thay HAS PROVEN that it's no better than 6th place
Rodgers stystem was built around possession and smart build up
Klopp is about pace and direct attacking....... complete polar opposite of each other and no preseason to get his type of players in and impliment his style to the existing ones
It's not a great excuse but it is one
Add the hamstring injuries that ruined his squad, the high profile wins and the 2 cup finals....think he can just about be excused
is where they will finish might even have a shout for a run at the title if they improve injury's and there defence . ;ok
;ok
My main 'gripe' isn't with Klopp, but rather with what I feel has been the 'free pass' the UK meejah have given him, going massively overboard when his side have played well, but then excusing him almost completely when they haven't.
Regardless of how much Liverpool overpaid for players, it isn't as though he took over a bunch of cloggers and hoofers (Skrtel excepted, obviously.)
Logic, or consistency, isn't a factor for them.
They are happy to build someone up, then turn on them and say exactly the opposite of what they previously said.
Without wishing to reopen old wounds, I noticed the reporting of Sunderland avoiding relegation became, 'Allardayce does it again'.
;hmm
That would be because once more he was brought into a relegation-threatened club and rescued it, would it?
Can they name the teams Allardyce was brought in to save from the threat of relegation, apart from Sunderland?
I know, but that isn't the narrative the meejah offer.
WHU/MU: (link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/05/10/west-ham-uniteds-night-of-nostalgia-brings-unwelcome------return/) telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/…
Liv/Sev: (link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/05/18/jurgen-klopp-must-rebuild-liverpool-after-old-transfer-failings/) telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/…
In fact, I'm going to get in touch with the telegraph directly and ask them.
Greame Howlett.