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Hillsborough Inquest Verdict [26.04.16]

edited April 2016 in Miscellaneous
QUESTION 6: Determination on unlawful killing issue

Are you satisfied, so that you are sure, that those who died in the disaster were unlawfully killed? Yes or no.

Yes
«1345

Comments

  • Good.

    Not good, but you know what I mean.
  • BBC; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36138337

    The jury also concluded
    - Police errors caused a dangerous situation at the turnstiles
    - Failures by commanding officers caused a crush on the terraces
    - There were mistakes in the police control box over the order to open the Leppings Lane end exit gates
    - Defects at the stadium contributed the disaster
    - There was an error in the safety certification of the Hillsborough stadium
    - Police delayed declaring a major incident
    - The emergency response including the ambulance service was also delayed
  • edited April 2016
    Responsibility also partly on the club, the engineering company, the ambulance service, they found.

    No blame attached to fans.

    CPS now considering criminal charges.
  • The time of deaths now being recorded are interesting [for want of a suitable word] given the directive the original cornier was told about time of death [15:15 cut off point].

    This new information brings into sharp focus how many of those that may have been saved had an there been an appropriate response by the emergency services.
  • For those who didn't know and for those who have forgotten what scum this paper is. #JusticeForThe96

    image
  • Justice for the 96.

    Hope The Sun gets closed down.
  • Although, suz, the paper was printing the web of lies that was constructed and deliberately spread by the police, I think.

    Although I agree the Sun was and is dreadful rag ;ok
  • Has it ever apologised?
  • This may be a slightly controversial view, I concur with the majority verdicts assigning responsibility, but struggle with the final verdict of unlawful killing.

    There were errors made at many levels that created the perfect storm leading up to the tragedy and the confusion that reigned during the event almost inevitably resulted in such a tragic loss of life.

    I actually understand how, on the day, circumstances can arise that could result in such confusion and tragic consequences but I do not accept that anyone set out that day and acted deliberately to cause it.

    However, what was done deliberately, and what I think is almost the most damning, was the post event cover up, that a cover up occurred and blatent lies told is beyond doubt and I struggle to understand how the perpetrators of those lies and those who orchestrated the cover up can live with themselves.
  • Yes it did in 2012.
  • I think a crucial issue is that officers were negligent, and it was the negligence that led to the errors, chicago. There weren't just unforseeable accidents - the deaths were preventable because the circumstances that led to the deaths were preventable.(if I read the jury findings correctly.)

    (I don't think the legal term 'unlawful killing' requires it to have been premeditated or intended.)

  • edited April 2016
    I've just looked up what unlawful killing means...
    (English law) a verdict that can be returned by an inquest in England and Wales. It includes all forms of homicide, including murder, manslaughter, infanticide and causing death by dangerous driving. No individual person is named as responsible
    and from wiki
    The standard of proof is that the unlawful killing must be beyond reasonable doubt. If this standard is not met, a verdict of accidental death or death by misadventure on the balance of probabilities may be returned
  • To quote (ish) Churchill - "this is not the end, nor the beginning of the end, but the end of the beginning."

    There is still a long journey ahead for the Campaign
  • I went to Hillsborough on a number of occasions back in the 80s & I can vouch that the police there were thugs in uniforms.All of us were treated like dirt,we were just scum & criminals to them.
    The thing is,anyone who followed their team away in those days knew from the off that it was one big lie & cover up because we had experienced bad treatment just about everywhere.
    I live in Madrid where the Liverpool supporters club is massive & I know one guy who was there.He broke down & cried mid sentence when he told me his story of the day.He lost friends,two of them.Just imagine going to a semi with West Ham & two of your mates dying at the game,it just doesn't bear thinking about.
    I feel a sense of relief that these lies have finally been exposed & as far as I'm concerned they are national heroes for doing so.
    Now let's prosecute the guilty & close down The Sun.

  • Madrid, without being able to contradict your post with 1st hand experience, the inquest has also shown that a number of police officers (and not only those who were off duty and at the match as fans) did their best to help the trapped and injured.

  • This is in no way intended to be controversial or disrespectful, but I struggle with the term "unlawful killing". What I mean is, when is a killing lawful?
  • One such 'lawful killing' would be self defence
  • Ah yes Herb, never thought of that.
  • It's to distinguish it from accidental death, I think.

    And bear in mind, this is a coroners court, not a criminal court. So it's a bit different.

  • Justice for the 96.

    Hope The Sun gets closed down.

    Yep...disgrace of a rag.
  • 27 years to get this far, nothing will compare to the loss and grief those families have had to go through, never quite getting closure like most do when a loved one dies.

    The incompetence is bad enough, but having to wait this long makes it even worse and the awful cover up that existed amongst the establishment is an absolute disgrace.

    Unfortunately it was probably a tragedy waiting to happen back then. Police saw nearly all football fans as hooligans and treated the majority as such, a minority of football fans didn't help themselves, their fellow fans or the game.

    That ground was also (probably like many) an accident waiting to happen.

    A very very sad situation all round.
  • MrsGrey said:

    Madrid, without being able to contradict your post with 1st hand experience, the inquest has also shown that a number of police officers (and not only those who were off duty and at the match as fans) did their best to help the trapped and injured.

    Mrs Grey-thanks for pointing that out.
  • That makes sense Mrs Grey, thanks. ;ok
  • edited April 2016
    madrid

    A very long article, but the last 4 paragraphs are relevant, if youwould be interested to read of just one example ;ok

    http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/26/hillsborough-disaster-deadly-mistakes-and-lies-that-lasted-decades
  • MrsGrey said:

    madrid

    A very long article, but the last 4 paragraphs are relevant, if youwould be interested to read of just one example ;ok

    http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/26/hillsborough-disaster-deadly-mistakes-and-lies-that-lasted-decades

    Thanks Mrs Grey,
    I had already read this but you are right & Officer Greaves is a credit to the force.It is worth noting that he was off duty though.Those on duty in general didn't show his calmness & compassion.
    My judgement is maybe clouded,I have memories of bad treatment not just at the hands of the South Yorkshire force but also West Midlands,Merseyside & Gtr Manchester to name but a few.
    I'm just relieved for the families but thanks again,it's important not to lose sight of the fact that not all the officers were to blame.
  • I think you'll find most of the issues with the policing were at senior level. The officers on the ground seemed to be trying to retrieve a situation already lost by shocking misjudgements from on high.
  • I would agree with that.
  • South Yorks Police = Thatcher's Boot Boys. This all happened just a few years after the miners strike and that force (and the met) stunk!
  • edited April 2016
    There were policemen on the ground that day who were forced to change their statements, who suffered after the disaster they did not cause.

    They should not be lumped in with those that are responsible.

    Whilst have I personal experience of the South Yorkshire Police at that time and how all forces treated fans and demonstrators, not all police officers are the same. Then and now.
  • I will keep it simple I was a UP that day think it was Boro or Soton in our relegation year the news crept out we (Sonof) left he was a lad had radio 2 on the long drive home and cried and many times over later years the appalling cover up since is a shame on succesive governments and our judicial system as a lifelong fan who has been on terraces where being almost crushed was the norm
    I always felt by the grace of God go I RIP and always remembered ;poppy
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