Official - some people can't let Sam Allardyce go (counselling available, reasonable fees.)

buffybegood

So glad he's gone, in his interview after losing to Liverpool he says of the goal

"I suppose I look to blame somebody"

That sums it up to me, he always looked to blame someone and never accepted responsibility for bad results or performances himself.

Interview:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/35202176

grey_til_I_dye

buffy

That's your impression, but it isn't supported by the pesky facts.

buffybegood

grey_til_I_dye said:

buffy

That's your impression, but it isn't supported by the pesky facts.

Does the fact that he repeatedly blamed players in post match interviews not count as pesky facts? Words straight from his own mouth don't count as pesky facts?

We'll have to disagree on this one.

grey_til_I_dye

buffy

Well, they would if that is what he had done.

You think that's what he did, but I don't believe you'd find a lot of evidence for it.

It's one of those things that people 'know' without it actually being true.

So yes, we will have to disagree.

Lukerz

I do think he has a tendency to blame things out of his control (missed chances, poor defending, crowd negativity, referee etc), but I'm sure he has also shown times when he does accept responsibility.

grey_til_I_dye

Lukerz

How is that 'blame'?

if a player misses a sitter, or gives away a bad pass to let a player in to score, how is referring to that 'blaming' as opposed to 'ruing'?

How many times have people on here pointed out poor refereeing decisions recently?

Is it OK for fans, but not managers?

I take it anyone on here praising our performances of late by referring to injuries is also 'blaming' them in that case.

As Slav pointed out after the Soton game, it was the players that got us back in to the game, but the corollary is that they were the ones who got us in to the mess in the first place.

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

Think the problem with Sam a lot of the time is the way he "words" things. He's old school in that area. He comes across that way in his book, he tends to use "I" instead of "we" a lot. He also has a lot of confidence in his own ability (not a bad trait to have) plus he just seems to be a "Speak my mind, say what I like, like what I bloomin well say" type of bloke to a point........

Trouble is, whatever he said about WHU during his reign or even after he went, so many got so precious about some of his quotes. All the while the media were quoting his book and it was being serialised then I wondered what the full chapter/subject looked like and it's no surprise they took the "shock" pieces and ran with them.

When you read the entire book and see the context a lot clearly of some stuff, he hardly ever slaughtered anyone at the club. He see's it as black and white, results, points, promotion and stay up, that appears to have been his list of goals, so that's what he did. He talks about the play-off win as one of his finest achievements and he also says we over achieved massively in the first season, which didn't help with the expectation in the following seasons (that I agree with 100%).

He didn't help himself in the begining, with some of the things he said, no doubt had he worded those things better, it could've been a slightly better relationship with some of the fans, however I'll always believe that no matter what he did or said, even if he told them they were the worlds greatest fans everyday, there was a group that refused to 'take to him' in any shape or form, they'd already made their minds up and had their agenda from the minute he was appointed.

Look at the match day squad for our first game back in the PL vs Aston Villa


Jussi Jaaskelainen
George McCartney (O'Brien 71)
Guy Demel
Winston Reid
James Collins
Mohamed Diame
Kevin Nolan (Tomkins 73)
Matt Taylor
Mark Noble
Carlton Cole (Maiga 81)
Ricardo Vaz Te

Substitutes
Stephen Henderson
Nicky Maynard
James Tomkins (Nolan 73)
Alou Diarra
Joey O'Brien (McCartney 71)
Modibo Maiga (Cole 81)


Look at the team we have now.....

Adrian
Tomkins
Reid
Collins
Cresswell
Kouyate
Noble
Carroll
Sakho

The spine was all built or made better during the Sam era and has now been complimented with the likes of.....

Obiang
Payet
Antonio

(and that's not including loans of Jenks, Song, Moses and Lanzini in both pre and post era's)

From day 1 for me, he will always was and will always be, a means to an end.

;ok

SuzanneClaret

He is a mug of builders tea in a world of frothy lattes.

Lukerz

Genuine question, aimed at everyone.

Now, at the half way point and based on what you've witnessed so far, was the decision to part with Sam the correct one?

IronHerb

YES! (Even without witnessing what we have so far)

TwistandShout

SuzanneClaret said:

He is a mug of builders tea in a world of frothy lattes.

With sugar in it and you're allergic to sugar ;whistle

cuz

my answer would be probably more on the side of yes, but still not 100% convinced bilic is the answer yet, yes hes brought well and we are playing some good stuff but tactically he still as room for improvement imo so time will tell

Expat_Hammer

You know, I sort of get this strange feeling that Twist doesn't, or in fact never has, been too happy with BFS as our manager ;whistle

Lukerz

Corresponding fixtures comparison (I have replaced the three promoted sides of Bournemouth, Watford and Norwich with the three relegated sides of the previous season, with Bournemouth being Hull because Hull finished highest within the bottom three, and AFCB won the Championship etc):

2014/15; 2015/16

Arsenal 3-0 West Ham; Arsenal 0-2 West Ham
West Ham 2-0 Leicester; West Ham 1-2 Leicester
West Ham 3-0 Hull; West Ham 3-4 Bournemouth
Liverpool 2-0 West Ham; Liverpool 0-3 West Ham
West Ham 1-0 Newcastle; West Ham 2-0 Newcastle
Man City 2-0 West Ham; Man City 1-2 West Ham
West Ham 2-0 QPR; West Ham 2-2 Norwich
Sunderland 1-1 West Ham; Sunderland 2-2 West Ham
Crystal Palace 1-3 West Ham; Crystal Palace 1-3 West Ham
West Ham 0-1 Chelsea; West Ham 2-1 Chelsea
Burnley 1-3 West Ham; Watford 2-0 West Ham
West Ham 1-2 Everton; West Ham 1-1 Everton
Tottenham 2-2 West Ham; Tottenham 4-1 West Ham
West Ham 1-1 WBA; West Ham 1-1 WBA
Man Utd 2-1 West Ham; Man Utd 0-0 West Ham
West Ham 1-1 Stoke; West Ham 0-0 Stoke
Swansea 1-1 West Ham; Swansea 0-0 West Ham
Aston Villa 1-0 West Ham; Aston Villa 1-1 West Ham
West Ham 1-3 Southampton; West Ham 2-1 Southampton

2014/15 total points = 23
2015/16 total points = 29

So Slav is doing six points better than Sam from the same games. So all this "we're worse off than at this stage last season" is rubbish, because we're 2 wins better off.

So it's looking good as long as Slav avoids a disastrous second half of the season.

grey_til_I_dye

Lukerz

It's not exactly rubbish, though, is it?

It's simply how one chooses to look at things.

After the first 19 games last season we had 31 points, this year it is 29.

That's easily as valid a comparison as yours.

As to whether it was the right decision, I'd say more that it wasn't (at least so far) the wrong one.

TwistandShout

Expat_Hammer said:

You know, I sort of get this strange feeling that Twist doesn't, or in fact never has, been too happy with BFS as our manager ;whistle

What gives you that impression? ;whistle

OldCastleSwift

Slaven_A_Laugh_Lukerz said:

Genuine question, aimed at everyone.

Now, at the half way point and based on what you've witnessed so far, was the decision to part with Sam the correct one?

Yes. For me, West Ham feels like West Ham again.

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

Slaven_A_Laugh_Lukerz said:

Genuine question, aimed at everyone.

Now, at the half way point and based on what you've witnessed so far, was the decision to part with Sam the correct one?

Yes it was. If only to stop the clear divide he brought between the fans.

Also because there is no way we won't beat last years haul of 47 points, so it was a step in the right direction

SuzanneClaret

Slaven_A_Laugh_Lukerz said:

Genuine question, aimed at everyone.

Now, at the half way point and based on what you've witnessed so far, was the decision to part with Sam the correct one?

Yes.

Can we move on now?

Lukerz

No

;devil

SuzanneClaret

;fishslap

Go to your room.

baracks_a_hammer

given that the owners didn't do anything in the Jan 15 transfer window to back up the excellent start we had to last season (which kind of tells me they were ready to part with him at the end of his contract anyway) and the players themselves were diabolical (to the extent they could barely pass to each other), then it was probably the right decision not to renew his contract

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

Baracks.....it's brushed under the carpet, but not getting anyone in during Jan (Nene in Feb) played a major part in the final 16/17 games.

Then all of a sudden they "find" £35m in the summer.

baracks_a_hammer

IZWT ;ok

IronHerb

We were 4th in the league and flying so we were never going to go for much in January.

Ravel49

Move away from the Boleyn
No emphasis on youth
Actually a decent squad ;nonono

Doesn't feel like West Ham anymore ;weep

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

IronHerb said:

We were 4th in the league and flying so we were never going to go for much in January.

We already had injuries......and by the end of the month it was clear we needed a couple in.

IronHerb

Who was injured?

Lukerz

Grey - I always like to go by corresponding fixtures, as opposed to 'number of games'.

You could play Watford, Newcastle, WBA, Bournemouth, Sunderland and Villa in your first six games of the season, take 12 points + and then next season start with Man City, Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal, Man Utd and Chelsea, taking 3 points.

I know they're extremes, but comparing those set of fixtures would be completely unfair.

grey_til_I_dye

Lukerz

I see your point, but the halfway stage is, for me, a reasonable marker, since you have played every team once (albeit H and A will be different.).

You could argue that adjusting for promoted/relegated teams is not particularly scientific...