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Speculation, Gossip and Made Up Rumours (approx 1 confirmed transfer every 200 pages)

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  • I think it's a wait and see job as although our board are not blessed with spotting the obvious this matter in question is the most blatant open OR own goal you could imagine.

    Be seen to treat Collins well which could take the form of a new contract, a supporting role in the coaching team or a testimonial and the PR benefit at a time when needed is obvious, just say goodbye and thanks and it will obviously not go down well for not mirroring the respect felt by so many supporters.

    It is a business and he is unlikely to play much of a part next season without a long injury list but some players from all teams do deserve that little bit more than a straight business transaction, we have two such players in Ginge and Noble, and in my view that should be recognised.
  • C&B

    As has already been said, Ginge doesn't qualify for a testimonial.

    I really don't see it as a PR own goal, unless Gabbs got it wrong, and Ginge didn't hear about it in person first.

    It seems to me perfectly reasonable to release out of contract players, and then let the new manager decide what he wants to do.
    carsonroadboy
  • Signing on Collins to another year would've recieved positive press from the fans....dunno how the board couldn't see that

    Now they have to deal with the fallout

    The board can't win with our fans. No matter what they do, they'll be some faction of the fans that will criticize them.

    I can just imagine what discussions we would be having had Collins been retained.

    1. No ambition shown by the club.
    2. Not spending the money to bring in a replacement but keeping an aging, crocked player on the books.
    3. Why do we have the oldest defence in the league?
    4. Why are we using one of our squad places, and wages for Collins.
    5. Blah blah blah

    On another note, do you honestly believe Collins thought he was coming back for another season after Moyes gave him a last minute cameo against Everton with Noble giving him the Captain's armband and the emotional farewell he gave the fans after the game. In my opinion, he already knew he wasn't coming back.
    HammerwombatDodger58MrsGreyAdamalderzcarsonroadboyBarney
  • MIAHammer said:

    On another note, do you honestly believe Collins thought he was coming back for another season after Moyes gave him a last minute cameo against Everton with Noble giving him the Captain's armband and the emotional farewell he gave the fans after the game. In my opinion, he already knew he wasn't coming back.

    His Instagram post after the game suggests he believed there was still a chance

    IMG_20180520_125339
    Slaven_Cups_His_Beard
  • MIA thats not the point im making

    It was an easy positive to give Collins another year

    There is a difference between giving a player of 10 years who loves the club an extra the buying the likss of evra/fonte who are well past there best before they even got here
  • I don't think it's the decision that's the problem. It's the apparent way in which it was acted upon.
    Slaven_Cups_His_BeardbillybondsbeardBertQuigley
  • Good point OCS ;ok

    Maybe I should have said he knew suspected he wasn't coming back.

    I still feel that he had been told something before the game and his tweet does seem to somewhat tie into Sully's version.
  • For me the key part of MIA's post was
    Why are we using one of our squad places, and wages for Collins.
    . We are led to believe that we are very close to our wages cap, we shouldn't keep someone on for 'sentimental' reasons only.

    Should we really be retaining Collins for cover - or should we be 'giving youth a chance'. We don't yet know whether Burke & Oxford are to be retained, but I would prefer that to keeping Collins for old times sake ...
    MrsGreyIronHerb
  • MIA thats not the point im making

    It was an easy positive to give Collins another year

    There is a difference between giving a player of 10 years who loves the club an extra the buying the likss of evra/fonte who are well past there best before they even got here

    I'm not disagreeing but the point I was making is there is a lot of unrest in the fanbase (both at the stadium and online) and no matter what they (the board) would've done, we would still be debating this.
    alderz
  • IronHerb

    I don't think it is 'apparent' more 'claimed by some'.

    That's not me playing semantics; there is at least as much contradiction as confirmation.

    The Beeb are now going with:
    It is understood West Ham co-owner David Sullivan spoke to Collins before an email was sent to the player.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44189068
  • Even kumb have claimed that the original report was wide of the mark.
  • It was a difficult situation no doubt because of the timing of our game, the PL list that had to be submitted and of course because it turned out we didn’t have a manager to do this and make a decision

    They have however left the door open for a new manager to reverse the decision which is a good thing.

  • ExWhu has just confirmed to me, that he’s spoken to Gabbidon about his “not true” tweet and he did it before knowing the full story......
  • In my opinion I think this risks being blown way out of proportion. There is a lot to knock the owners for but it’s still not clear if there’s been a wrongdoing and if so, was it wilful. Contrast this, say, to our owner’s public humiliation of Fonte whilst he was still at the club, for which every bit of flak they got was deserved.

    Also, whilst I truly appreciate Ginge’s contribution to the club, if he’s got a bit upset by mix ups in communication, then if I’m honest I’m not that bothered. He has earned millions doing what he enjoys and I’m sure can continue doing it elsewhere should he choose to do so. Meanwhile up and down the country many millions work hard just to get by doing things they might derive no enjoyment from - so if there’s a pot of sympathy going round, I for one would not be in a hurry to pass it in ginge’s direction on account of this episode.
    PrestonHammer
  • There is still a right way of doing things, especially for someone of his length of service and professionalism during his tenure, in a modern game where loyalty is seldom witnessed.
    Cuz1
  • And still no satisfactory evidence that the right way wasn't followed.
    carsonroadboy
  • Even if I showed what I have it wouldn’t do any good, because it’s still someone’s version of events even if they are close to Ginge, plus people may say that Ginge isn’t telling it how it is. So it would just carry on and on, but I know who I believe now I have the information that I have. Could still be wrong though.

    ExWhu got a copy of the email last Tuesday immediately after Ginge had it, he spoke on his show of a couple of matters that he wouldn’t reveal because of the possible negativity it would cause, this was one of them
  • edited May 20

    And still no satisfactory evidence that the right way wasn't followed.

    Indeed. And even if there was not done in the right order (deplorable as that would be).. is it the board's fault?

    Did the personnel guy not follow normal procedures? In which case it's an internal disciplinary matter.

    Did someone from the board tell the personnel guy to ignore the normal procedures in Ginge's case? In that case, blame the board member by all means.

    Isn't it the case that normally the manager would deliver the news to the players at the end of the season (that's how I've heard it talked about before)? Bbut since we don't have a manager maybe there wasn't enough clarity about who would do what, in what order?

    If so, they need to review their personnel policies and get everyone some training/refreshing. That is way below the board's level of responsibility.

    For me, I love a Ginge, but he really isn't that great a CB. Competent, and a good professional, yes. But I'd like an upgrade, personally. It's always a bit sad when a fan fave leaves. But some of the things I've read about him in the discussions recently seem somewhat revisionist to me. Just my view of it.


    (Edit: if you aren't careful, you can end up typing 'bard' instead of 'board'. Which amused me ;biggrin )


  • edited May 20

    There is still a right way of doing things, especially for someone of his length of service and professionalism during his tenure, in a modern game where loyalty is seldom witnessed.

    Of course there is. Nobody has disagreed with this, and I don't think anybody will.

    And since this is the first time we are having this discussion, we might reasonably assume that the club know that too, and have done it 'the right way' in the past. We've let a whole lot of players go (either at the end of their contracts, or by mutual consent as a free agent when we've paid them off) in the years since the current owners took over.

    So even if (and I'm not yet convinced) that someone dropped the ball in this instance, I think the reaction of many is way way over the top.

  • Slizzy

    No one is asking you to show what you have been sent.

    You believe that version of events, and others of us don't, and won't unless more satisfactory evidence appears.
  • That’s fine, then people will stay in their camps as to who they believe, no problem with that. Unless there is a direct quote form Ginge or the club about it, then nobody will fully be convinced either way.

    For me I think it’s the fact that we get ourselves into these “possible” situations is just as frustrating as the possible wrongdoing itself

    ;ok
  • 'We' have not got ourselves into these 'possible' situations - the press has and the re is too much reaction to unsubstantiated news stories. 'we' would have got ourselves into this 'possible' situation if the statement had been made by the Board or Ginge.
    more evidence of over reaction to press sensatialism in my view. they are still choosing to tell the email story and not the alternative version or even balancing the stories.
    MrsGreyPrestonHammer
  • Barney

    tbf to the Beeb, they now 'understand' that Sully spoke to Ginge first.
  • edited May 20
    barney ;ok

    As soon as a bunch of people on social media start getting their knickers in a twist ... there's your story, right there: 'West Ham fans outraged.....' (If you are a certain kind of media.) And once the story is reported in that kind of media, the other kind can't just ignore it.

    BarneyMarkNobleLocalHero
  • I think we all need the managerial appointment process to shift along quickly so we can move on to being outraged at the appointment of Gary Megson, once all the other candidates drop out one by one
    Dodger58PrestonHammerMrsGrey
  • Barracks leave megson alone I like him ;whistle
  • MIAHammer said:

    On another note, do you honestly believe Collins thought he was coming back for another season after Moyes gave him a last minute cameo against Everton with Noble giving him the Captain's armband and the emotional farewell he gave the fans after the game. In my opinion, he already knew he wasn't coming back.

    His Instagram post after the game suggests he believed there was still a chance

    IMG_20180520_125339
    if Sullivan did tell him the Friday before the EFC game that there was still a chance the manger would offer him a deal, and that an email was coming because of the Pl list thingy, would he of posted this? I’m not so sure. He still thinks he’s a west ham player until his contract finishes and things could happen in the next few weeks, also he thinks that he can play a role next season.

    Surely Sully meeting him and telling him the situation that was going to unravel the next few days would’ve dampened that somewhat?

    ;hmm
  • Matthew Etherington has just tweeted this..

    “Contrary to misleading reports, Ginge hadn’t heard anything until he received the email on Tuesday. He understands the club had to submit the list but an explanation beforehand would have been decent. He then could of got the send off he deserves. A good, good man”.. #gingerpele
  • Not sure this is doing any favours for James Collins and his prospects of getting a new contract
  • What more of a send off would he have got, going by what he received in the last match of the season?
This discussion has been closed.