West Ham vs Arsenal (A) Match Thread 22.04.2018

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

thornburyiron said:

I know it shouldn't but I think the Rice mess really stuffed them. They'd worked their socks off for 80 minutes and to do something as stupid as that made their heads dropped. Conversely Arsenal knew that from what they thought was a draw they'd been gifted a win. Totally changed the demeanour of both sides.
Let's hope Rice learns that safety first is sometimes the best policy

Let’s also hope that Hart learns unless he’s shouting keepers so Rice can leave it, he shouts nothing and doesn’t help cause confusion

If hart shouts nothing what do you think happens?

Rice clears it, every time because that’s what he default position is as a defender

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

imagelost said:

I blame Moyes for this , sitting back and invite the the traffic on,,, like a a lot people said would happen on this site

I blame him more for last week, he is Sam LITE, not sure we need that right now, but oh well

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

alderz said:

Rice ducked. He must have thought he heard something he didn’t

Hart shouted clear it, causing the confusion, he had to repeat what he said after the goal to Rice, no shout and no duck imo

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

alderz said:

Gutted. I thought we looked good for the point and that Rice error has absolutely knocked it out of us

He’s not the only one at blame here, Hart didn’t have to say anything and it appears Rice didn’t hear properly what was said

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard said:

thornburyiron said:

I know it shouldn't but I think the Rice mess really stuffed them. They'd worked their socks off for 80 minutes and to do something as stupid as that made their heads dropped. Conversely Arsenal knew that from what they thought was a draw they'd been gifted a win. Totally changed the demeanour of both sides.
Let's hope Rice learns that safety first is sometimes the best policy

Let’s also hope that Hart learns unless he’s shouting keepers so Rice can leave it, he shouts nothing and doesn’t help cause confusion

If hart shouts nothing what do you think happens?

Rice clears it, every time because that’s what he default position is as a defender

Are you saying Hart shouted something? How do you know?

imagelost

grey_til_I_dye said:

imagelost said:

I blame Moyes for this , sitting back and invite the the traffic on,,, like a a lot people said would happen on this site

Sorry, Image, but that isn't where the goals came from, and it isn't what we did.

I think people calling for Moyes to have been 'braver' from the start, in terms of attacking play, should at least reflect on the likelihood of us getting thumped if we had.

We were far more vulnerable once we had Lanzini and Chicarito on the pitch.

For me, Moyes did the right thing: set up to be hard to get past, and look to counter-attack, which we did successfully during the first half.

Once we went behind he took the risk of being more attacking, with the almost inevitable result.

So ray houghton had all wrong on his commentary, “ West Ham are sitting to deep”
I must confess angered me at the time, I thought, why isn’t ray doing a top flight mangers job?
The score line reflect what happened!

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

Because I’ve watched it back numerous times, he shouts “clear it” a split second before the ball gets to Rice, who then reacting to any shout and ducks

When they look at each other after the goal, Hart clearly says to Rice “I said clear it”

Bottom line hart didn’t need to shout anything it caused confusion unfortunately

If hart does nothing what happens? Rice clears it all day long as that’s what he’s trained to do

thornburyiron

I don't think it matters a jot what Hart said or didn't say, Rice should have headed it away. Could you really imagine Ginge doing what he did. He'd have headed it away and then told Hart "you do your job and I'll do mine".

MarkNobleLocalHero

Suze ........

he’s given Mario and Fernandez far too long on the pitch

^^THIS^^

Fortuneseeker

S_C_H_B,

Rice best go to get a hearing test. Lets all defend the young lad, its not as if he hasn't made costly mistakes before this season, but he will learn. No its easier to blame Hart who using his experience made a simple instruction to clear the ball just like a lot of keepers do all around the leagues. ;hmm

ClaretandBlueforLife

SuzanneClaret said:

The Arsen Wenger eulogy was moving.

He’s NOT dead you say ;nonono

Well someone needs to tell Sky ;angry

No he is not dead, but I was sad to hear he had bowed to the enevitable; although a few seasons too late imo.

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

thornburyiron said:

I don't think it matters a jot what Hart said or didn't say, Rice should have headed it away. Could you really imagine Ginge doing what he did. He'd have headed it away and then told Hart "you do your job and I'll do mine".

Of course it matters, again what do you think happens if Hart doesn’t shout?

I know where my money is

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

Fortuneseeker said:

S_C_H_B,

Rice best go to get a hearing test. Lets all defend the young lad, its not as if he hasn't made costly mistakes before this season, but he will learn. No its easier to blame Hart who using his experience made a simple instruction to clear the ball just like a lot of keepers do all around the leagues. ;hmm

He has a split second to know what was said, nothing said, no problem he clears as normal.

I’m not blaming hart 100% but people need to realize he added to the confusion

Being around keeper coaches over the years then while some will say clear it ask questions later, others know that only keepers when the keeper wants it

ClaretandBlueforLife

Hart has to react as part of the team and/or individually on his own, he seems to lack either and should be gone at the end of the season.

thornburyiron

Slav I still don't think it matters. If a defender is going to rely on whether his keeper shouts of not he's not going to defend. The ball was just floating straight to him and his main priority at all times is to get the ball away from the goal.
He's young and made a stupid mistake and hopefully he will learn from it. When I used to play many many years ago coaches always told our keepers never to shout leave it or anything which could be misconstrued. "Keepers!" was about the only thing they were told they should say. Even "mine" was not recommended as you never know who said it.
If he thought he heard leave it then that could have been shouted by an Arsenal player which used to be deemed ungentlemanly conduct.

grey_til_I_dye

Hart has a habit of shouting 'Away!' which seems to me entirely unnecessary.

IF he only ever shouted when he was coming for it, things would be easier for his defenders.

All that said, in this case, Rice probably should have taken charge of the situation, and had a row later if needed.

It's a shame for him, and a nuisance for us, but I suspect it is one of those things that will help him a lot in his career over time.

What is to his credit, imo, is how few errors he has made, given his age and lack of experience.

OutcastLondoner

Exactly. I think Hart’s shouts probably don’t help but a more experienced defender would’ve blocked it out. From his face afterwards, Rice knows that now.

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

Don’t disagree G man....i do think it was a key factor in a game changing moment

For what was England’s no1 he’s got some really poor habits imo, being behind city’s defence over the years left him doing nothing a lot of the time

thornburyiron

It's kind of encouraging that after a game in which we lost 4-1 we are not discussing how appalling a display we'd seen but how a game hinged on a moment of madness by a young defender who shows all the signs of being a great, hopefully long term with us.
However having watched City demolish Swansea which was good for us I'm not looking forward with too much relish to next Sunday. I'm expecting to lose but hope our goal difference doesn't suffer too greatly although by Sunday we may be in a much better place depending on Saturdays results.

Yeoldhammer

we did okay, 4-1 was a harsh scoreline.

Moyes is falling into the Bilic trap though. Same trap Allardyce fell into also. Relying on the same faces who don't cut it.

Man City and Man Utd are going to be write offs though, we competed with a second string Arsenal who are bog standard average in my opinion. Cant see us doing anything against a First 11 Man Utd / Man City.

Going to need something at Leicester and possibly on the last home game against Everton. Think Stoke or Southampton can drag themselves out of it. Palace have some easier games, Huddersfield look like they could fall. Swansea can get themselves free.

I would say WBA / then 2 of, Stoke / Southampton / Huddersfield / West Ham.

baracks_a_hammer

I do hope Declan doesn’t read this forum. Very harsh to single him out today. He’s been playing very well and showing up many of his more experienced colleagues - given his age has been magnificent and will continue to be so. There’s no guarantee they wouldn’t have gone on to win anyway.

Fortuneseeker

It was interesting to see our own manager said Declan made a mistake. ;ok

buffybegood

Yeoldhammer said:

I would say WBA / then 2 of, Stoke / Southampton / Huddersfield / West Ham.

I'd add Swansea to those 4, I don't think they're out of it just yet.

thornburyiron

As has Arnie and some other players but they also all said he's young and everyone makes mistakes and he'll learn from it.

Fortuneseeker

Sorry to dig him out but according to some of the earlier comments it was Hart's fault?

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Baracks
No one is digging on Rice

He made an error which let them go ahead, hes young but the end of the day hes a pro footballer and he was at fault for the goal

Pretty sure everyone on here has been praising him non stop all year

Its a mistake from him, its not the first and it wont be the last but it can help him learn

IronHerb

Well thorn has mentioned Rice's error in his last 10 posts.

Vorselaarhammer

7 times we’ve conceded 3 or more in 27 games under Moyes...

;hmm

I don’t know what to think of him...

thornburyiron

IH I'm not sure what you're getting at. If you're saying I'm digging at him you're wrong. I said he made a mistake and he did. It was one he shouldn't have made and I doubt he'd make it again.
If you read all of people's posts and not just the bits you want to then you'd see I said he will turn out to be a great player and hopefully it will be for us.
However you want to cut it the fact he made the mistake won't disappear.

IronHerb

Agreed thorn but you've mentioned it in every post.