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Spurs A - 4.1.18 - 8pm - Match Thread

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Comments

  • Champo

    it was mentioned that he seems to lose the ball more times then most as a factual thing.
    Can't say I saw that post. Who said it?

    Re: the factual thing.

    The following is a statement of fact, which is either going to prove to be true or false:

    Lanzini often chooses to take on an opposition player, and loses the ball, when a pass is on for him.


    That's either true or false.

    It isn't a matter of opinion.

    I suppose what constitutes 'often' would be a matter of opinion, as would whether the pass would have been the better option, but the factual statement doesn't allow for opinions, since it is either true or false.
  • edited January 6

    All playmakers are going to make the wrong choices - Lanzini, Zaha KDB, all of them.

    Maybe the likes of KDB makes less, but Lanzini is our player and KDB is not. Maybe he made the wrong choice on Thursday or maybe he didn’t have the time to make a different choice, who knows - hindsight is a wonderful thing. I wouldn’t want him to stop trying to make something positive happen though even if on occasion another option might have been better

    I was using KDB for illustrative purposes when pointing out the shortcomings of the stats Champo posted. My mention of him had no other point.

    I agree with you - I like that Lanzini tries to make things happen.He's a really important player for us in that regard. I can't think anything I have said suggests otherwise. And of course I don't want him to stop trying to do so. Why would I?

    However, in 'making things happen' I think he has room for development in his decision-making, as in what is the best option to take. I hope he will learn (he is still relatively young) and I hope our coaches can improve him.

    I really can't see there's anything controversial about that. Who wouldn't want that?



    alderz
  • Well its false then

    Because he doesnt always lose the ball and he doesnt always have the pass on

    IronHerbKen_Egg
  • I had a great time replaying the flick over the heads to two spuds to a spud at work, he could not believe it, so i had to show him 30 times to be sure :)
  • edited January 6

    Well its false then

    Because he doesnt always lose the ball and he doesnt always have the pass on

    If only the original statement said he did and it was.
  • Champo

    The statement doesn't say 'always', it says 'often'.

    For clarity, I am using 'often' in this specific case to be 2 or 3 times a game, most games.
  • Said before I was frustrated that Lanzini stayed down, we needed him back, who knows if that would’ve help prevent their goal? I didn’t think it was a foul either.
  • Champo

    The statement doesn't say 'always', it says 'often'.

    For clarity, I am using 'often' in this specific case to be 2 or 3 times a game, most games.

    Like every single other player in football

    So its a irrelevant comment
  • No way was that goal down to Lanzini. No way.
  • I blame Curbs
  • IronHerb said:

    No way was that goal down to Lanzini. No way.

    Herb, I'll make sure to pass that on if I see anyone say it was.
    Slaven_Cups_His_Beard
  • edited January 6
    Champo

    Not sure how it is irrelevant, or indeed what it is meant to be irrelevant to.

    If you think giving the ball away is irrelevant, that's up to you. I don't, and I think at times he could avoid it if he tried; then he'd be a better player, and we might do better.
  • He didn't give the ball away, he was tackled. That is different to giving the ball away.
    WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years
  • Herb

    My comment to Champo was in general, not that specific case.

    I think he could have played the ball to Ayew, but elected to try the step-over

    Mostly today I have used the phrase 'lose the ball' with regard to Lanzini.

    I honestly don't get how a fairly simple comment earlier today has led to so much misunderstanding.
  • Champo

    it was mentioned that he seems to lose the ball more times then most as a factual thing.
    Can't say I saw that post. Who said it?

    Re: the factual thing.

    The following is a statement of fact, which is either going to prove to be true or false:

    Lanzini often chooses to take on an opposition player, and loses the ball, when a pass is on for him.


    That's either true or false.

    It isn't a matter of opinion.

    I suppose what constitutes 'often' would be a matter of opinion, as would whether the pass would have been the better option, but the factual statement doesn't allow for opinions, since it is either true or false.
    I still don't think it's a fact as I've not seen this with my own eyes to confirm if true or not. If I see it time and time again then yes it is a fact. As I said though maybe it's something that you've picked up on and I've missed. I'll judge in the next few games. To be honest I think this Lanzini debate isn't really going anywhere now!

    On a completely different note, I wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason Rice played so well is due to our key figures barking orders and ensuring we are organised, disciplined and well structured. Noble being great at this but so is Adrian and then obviously Moyes had a very clear & specific game plan in mind. Noble in particular is great for the kids coming through but Adrian and the managerial team are also extremely important.
  • Rice was organising and barking orders on the left hand side of the defence which, imo, made his performance even more remarkable.
    SuzanneClaret
  • welove

    To clarify:

    I said what followed was a 'statement of fact', and that as such was either true or false.

    I said it to oppose the idea it was my opinion.

    I didn't say it was a proven fact, incapable of being disproved.

    I believe it to be true, as I believe I have witnessed it in games.

    If I never see him do it again, I'm not going to say 'I still believe he does it. '


  • Grey, can you ever admit to being wrong?
  • NEoldiron said:

    Grey, can you ever admit to being wrong?

    Yes he can, you only have to look where his predictions have got him. last
    time I looked he was in the relegation zone.
    ;whistle
    Dodger58MrsGrey
  • Not sure what I am supposed to be wrong about.

    Welove misunderstood a point I made, and I tried to explain.
  • edited January 7
    Wasn’t it a great result guys ;ok
  • Once again.....you're statement of fact is ambiguous

    Lanzini often chooses to take on an opposition player, and loses the ball, when a pass is on for him.

    Successful dribbles per game 2.4, unsuccessful dribbles per game 1.4 by whoscored and similarly backed by 62.9% successful take on by opta

    Therefore you meant to say and occasionally loses the ball as your previous comment implies that he loses the ball when he chooses to take on a opposition player

    Lanzini often chooses to take on an opposition player this is incorrect and is not backed up, I've seen Lanzini pass the ball many occassions each game instead of beating the opposition and often the best chances he's created are the ones after successful dribbles

    And finally when a pass is on for him is open to interpretation, as I don't realistically think that pass was on for him and passing is influenced by player movements

    You believe it to be truth while I think you are wrong ;biggrin
  • Champo

    That's fine.

    I think it's true, you think it isn't.

    Simples.
  • As an aside to all of this, I think as football supporters we all love to see a player take on another, a skill that we have missed terribly at various points in our recent past.

    So to now have at least 3 in out regular starting line up alongside the less subtle 'tank' approach of Michail Antonio we should feel blessed as the style of football we want to see is making its way back.

    One side-effect of this is that they will occasionally (/regularly/always?) lose the ball. This, by default, will occasionally hurt us as it did last week. However if we keep on banging on about it, eventually the players will stop 'taking on' their opponents as the fear of ridicule returns and we'll be left with a sterile dirge of a game resembling 'Hoofball' or a new brand of Robotic football.

    I know what I'd rather watch, and suspect I am not alone. So let's stop 'calling out' players for trying and failing at what we most want to see.
    MarkNobleLocalHeroThamesIronWorks
  • Well, Dodger, if you find people " 'calling out' players for trying and failing at what we most want to see" feel free to tell them you don't think it is helpful.

    My point was NOT that I don't think Lanzini should try take-ons, simply that I think there are times he tries them, and fails, when a pass would be the better option, thus allowing us to keep, rather than lose possession.

    Personally, I'd like to see his decision making improve.

    Separately, I don't think what a few fans say on a forum will have a great impact on our style of play.
    SuzanneClaretironmike44ClaretandBlueforLife
  • Grey,
    I’d add that there are times when ALL players can make a wrong a wrong decision, not just Lanzini. The worst for me I think was Valencia, who always took too long on the ball and often lost possession, it got to the stage where my heart sank if the ball was passed to him in some matches.
    I agree wholeheartedly that I’d like to see his decision making improve ;ok
  • C&B

    ;ok

    Yeah, it wasn't intended as a Lanzini mega-bashing; it was really a passing comment that seemed to take on a life of its own.
    ClaretandBlueforLife
  • Well, Dodger, if you find people " 'calling out' players for trying and failing at what we most want to see" feel free to tell them you don't think it is helpful.
    I thought that was exactly what I had done ...

    "As an aside to all of this" also does not direct my comment at any individual, but if the cap fits ...
  • Dodger

    Nope, don't wear caps.

    Seems to me, in that comment, you were telling people not to do something that no one has done.

    Hence my comment - if you find
    Dodger58
  • edited January 7
    Dear All

    This thread will be closed once the Huddersfield match thread is started (we only have two match threads open at once).

    I kindly and respectfully ask you get your miss understanding of what others have posted out of your system. The match thread that contains a draw away at Spurs is now quite awful to read.

    I nearly brought on the clowns! ;clown

    Thank you ;scarf
    Dodger58BazshuayichicagohammerOldCastleSwiftSlaven_Cups_His_BeardMoojorMarkNobleLocalHerodeehammer
This discussion has been closed.