West Brom vs West Ham - Saturday 16.09.17 3:00 Match Thread

Kuchinghammer

Carroll has mostly been ineffective against WBA. I'd prefer to see Sakho's speed and aggression combined with Little Pea's finishing. Forget the ariel route. Of course, playing with 12 men would solve a lot of problems ;whistle

Yeoldhammer

I just think Carroll is our Peter Crouch option, last 20 minutes only.

SuzanneClaret

I don't think he is all ariel route either - he frightens the life out of defenses. A major asset on the pitch.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Well I don't believes that's he should play last 20 minutes "ONLY" but I do think he's the biggest impact player we have and is a nightmare for tiring defenders

While Ayew got the goal I didn't see a lot else still don't think he's got what it takes personally I agree that Sakho shpuld start his movement coupled with his pace and power shpuld cause the WBA defence problems and he will be more likely to work the channels meaning Hernandez can stick more central

Nice to know we could have Carroll, Arnautovic and Ayew to come off the bench if things aren't going so well

Think WBA will be very hard to beat at home they've got a good side so I'd be happy with a point but with Spurs next week I feel Bilic may need all 3 here

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

There's a lot of talk of Carroll being an impact player. Personally I can't remember him ever coming off the bench and scoring goals, or coming on and fundamentally changing a game.

Most of his best performances have (IMO) been from the start and for the entire match.

alderz

Jorderz ;ok

For me he's the one that tires out defences

eskimoking

Jorderz_Slaven_A_Good_Time said:

There's a lot of talk of Carroll being an impact player. Personally I can't remember him ever coming off the bench and scoring goals, or coming on and fundamentally changing a game.

Most of his best performances have (IMO) been from the start and for the entire match.

Southampton? December 2015 I think. But that's all that jumps to mind.

baracks_a_hammer

Carroll is not one to come on late and win us a game. Never has been whilst at West Ham (so far as I can remember)

Yeoldhammer

Just my opinion but I would rather see Antonio Hernandez Arnie in a front 3 if we are continuing with the 3-4-3.

4-4-2 diamond then Carroll and Hernandez up front with Antonio Arnie on the sides Obiang holding Lanzini at the tip.

alderz

A diamond midfield with just Obiang sitting would leave us incredibly exposed, imo

Yeoldhammer

probably but it would enable antonio lanzini and arnie to play further up the pitch and a more high pressing game. Obiang would just be that blocker to hold up any quick counters,

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Still think we need 3/5 at the back

We have 3 forward spots so Hernandez, Carroll, Antonio, Arnautovic, Ayew, Sakho and Lanzini have to Duke it out

While in a perfect world I'd like to see 4 at the back to accommodate these players I just don't trust us being strong enough to stop the goals

alderz

I think it needs to be 3 at the back, personally. Our attack isn't consistently good enough to bail out a defence leaking 2 goals a game, so 3-4-3 is the way for me.

I think that means a straight shoot out between Carroll and Chicarito. For some games we will want to be more direct than in others, and we should go case by case basis I guess.

For WBA, I would say the more I think about it the more I want a front 3 of Antonio Hernandez and Arnautovic. The pace and trickery would give them something to think about.

Then a midfield of Zabaleta Kouyate Obiang and Cresswell, and a back three to provide a solid platform.

Lukerz

4-2-3-1 worked in the Payet season, but mainly because of Payet. But I do remember us doing well defensively at times. I know we also let in a lot of goals, but:

We kept clean sheets against LFC home and away. One at Arsenal, one at Man Utd. Let in only one at City, kept one at home to Spurs, let one in at home to Chelsea. So against the top 6 sides, we did very well with a back four. The only exception was the 4-1 loss to Spurs and the 3-3 at home to Arsenal. So it's not like we haven't done well with the 4 at the back. In many of those games we also only played two CM's.

But since Payet lost interest, we have seemed incapable of playing 4-2-3-1 without letting in a load of goals.

I like 3-4-3 when you get the balance right. But we need to be able to play 4 at the back otherwise we will become predictable. But I think we'll need a proper Carvahlo type player for that to work.

sweepy23

Although a tough place to go I'm very hopeful of a result here.
My concern is Obiang. I like him as a player but he nearly lost the ball on multiple occasions in dangerous places against Huddersfield.
He wouldn't get away with that against better sides that break fast in numbers.

COYI

FlorinRaduclious

In my opinion the one who looked a little worrying on monday night was Kouyate. He was full of running and hassling as per usual but his passes were often slow or just behind the receiver slowing our play down, and his technical lack showed with his miss kick when given a clear sight of goal in the box in the first half. His positioning was off a couple of times which let Huddersfield come through the middle but luckily got stopped when one of the CB's pushed into the gap, but better teams would punish us there. I'm hoping it's just rustiness from being out for a while but his technical ability has long been his weak point. I'd still start him at the weekend but he is often a worry for me.

OutcastLondoner

Florin, agree he looked rusty but hoping he'll shake it off with a few games. Still brought a lot more drive to the midfield.

Vorselaarhammer

There is a reason Kouyate us still with us and not a top6 side.

But what he gives us is tons of energy...

Whitehorsehammer

He showed a nice piece of skill bring down a high ball in the build up to our second goal.

alderz

I wonder how Lanzini and Obiang would fair in a 2 if they had three behind them? Lanzini works hard, isn't afraid to get stuck in, is a very capable ball carrier, and is very purposeful in his passing.

;hmm

SuzanneClaret

So, you'd put Carroll and Hernandez in front of him? You'd sacrifice Kouyate?

alderz

No, I'd sacrifice Kouyate and Carroll.

3-4-3; Hart; Fonte Reid Collins; Zabaleta Obiang Lanzini Cresswell; Antonio Hernandez Arnautov,

The thing is, I am not thinking that we need to have a routine first XI, but I am aware there will be games that suit a target man, games that suit 2 up top, and games where you need Kouyatés power.

I just wonder if this would be one option of many

SuzanneClaret

I don't see why not.

We did miss midfield creativity on Monday.

FlorinRaduclious

I think even with a back three behind, a two with Lanzini would get overpowered too easily. Lanzini is either a AM or a CM in a three man centre mid. Although he isn't afraid to get stuck in tackling and hassling aren't strong parts of his game.

This is the problem of the 343, Lanzini doesn't have a role (IMO).

You could instead go 3412 with Lanzini as the 1 behind two strikers but then you struggle to fit in any of our wingers (Arnie, Ant, Ayew) unless you effectively bung them up top, but then you play 2 from Carroll, Hernandez, Sakho, Arnie, Ant, Ayew. Obviously Ant could play the wide right of the '4' but then you're leaving out Zab or Byram, and also not necessarily getting the best from Ant.

Who'd be a manager...

IronHerb

I think he will stick with Mondays team. Lanzini, Fernandes and Noble are still injured, Arnie is back in the squad.
I don't think we can afford to chop and change at this stage, after all it's taken a while to find a win.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

While I'd like us to get some creativity I think that comes once we start getting points on the board and moving up the table

Think at home against a 'smaller' team then Lanzini at CM may be useful but personally I think we should stick with Obiang and Kouyate they aren't perfect but they give us athleticism and strength in the middle which we've lacked

Arnie doesn't deserve to start after letting the club down he should fight for his place and Lanzini will take a couple weeks to get match fit

Same XI as Huddersfield for me

NEoldiron

Suze, haven't we missed midfield creativity since Payet deserted and Manu got injured ;hmm

MrsGrey

I don't think we 'missed it' on Monday. I didn't, anyway.

Hammerwombat

I love having options. And trust Slaven to sort them out. We are only 4 games in, and have not had a fully fit squad to choose from yet.

OutcastLondoner

alderz said:

No, I'd sacrifice Kouyate and Carroll.

3-4-3; Hart; Fonte Reid Collins; Zabaleta Obiang Lanzini Cresswell; Antonio Hernandez Arnautov,

The thing is, I am not thinking that we need to have a routine first XI, but I am aware there will be games that suit a target man, games that suit 2 up top, and games where you need Kouyatés power.

I just wonder if this would be one option of many

Can see what you're saying but personally would sooner lose Arnautovic than drop Kouyate.

I think our biggest problem is when we get too ponderous in the middle of the pitch. It turns into broken plays, misplaced passes and comes back on the defence.

I think we're pretty bad at anything other than a fast-paced or counter-attacking game and I worry that without Kouyate we often don't create that tempo.