Grammer - puncturation - riting. Disgusting...

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Comments

  • I can`t really remember the eighties............................ ;champagne
  • Ironduke said:



    Firstly I believe the advent of texts , sms etc are responsible for a fall in standards, with use of codes, abbrevs etc

    See, this is where I disagree with your implied premise that high standards are embodied in certain types of written communication while other forms are lower standard.

    What we actually have is two modes of communication (or two languages, if you like).

    Neither is intrinsically 'better' than the other. And using one rather than the other isn't a sign greater or lesser intelligence.

    Each is perfectly good - but not always equally appropriate. imo

  • Mrs G ;ok

    What I type and how I type it varies depending on who I am emailing, is it a work email or a personal email.
  • MrsG - thanks. You're back on the Christmas card list.

    Suz - that article and excerpt - OH MY GOD ;nonono . I have never come across ITA, I really feel for you and others who went through that! How on earth did they think effectively teaching a completely different written language would help children‽ Seriously, what a ridiculous way to confuse young minds. Today I have learned.
  • suz

    That ITA thing is insane!

    What a ridiculous attempt to solve the problem of English spelling. Which is, of course, also mad. But for sound historical reasons. ;biggrin
  • As Madcap says its does help explain a few things ;biggrin
  • I received an A at English Language and a C at English literature. I am not exactly sure what that means for SPAG. !
  • I got a B in language and a C in literature. But I got an A star in "deciphering medieval manuscripts" and I also help to translate The Dead Sea Scrolls in my spare time.
  • I received an A at English Language and a C at English literature. I am not exactly sure what that means for SPAG. !

    Depends when you got the grades.

    Government is forever moving the goalposts.

    Gove ;angry ;angry
  • So. Its there folt, the govt., who could of sorted out IMO this stuff about commas and Oxford....I thought a comma was a car, like a Morris Oxford. And Ill get Pink floyd to build the Wall but an adviser just told me they're commies. CU in court.
    POTUS
  • edited February 2017
    Just looking again at that ITA thing.

    It's not even consistent. ;doh

    So they invent a symbol for the sound in aull (all) and waurm (warm) but then don't use it it for the same sound in stormy.

    So it doesn't even regularise the symbol-sound relationship which is at the root of so many spelling/reading problems, which is what they were trying to address in the first place. ;lol
  • Florin

    those who can and don't are who irritate me.
    Not sure how they could be usefully (or fairly) identified.

    Pretty much every new secondary school English teacher goes through this:

    a) Gets first set of extended writing from Year 7 pupils (first years in old money)

    b) Sees lots of common errors, spread across the class

    c) Fumes (silently and privately) at inept primary teachers, and prepares a series of lessons to teach the children the few simple rules that will sort this out in no time

    d) Receives next set of extended writing and discovers the key effect of trying to teach whole class spelling/punctuation/grammar at secondary level:

    Those that knew still know

    Those that didn't know still don't know

    Of the middle group, some of those that didn't know now know, but you've managed to so confuse those that did kind of know that now they don't know anymore

    e) Develop the humility to recognise that you are unlikely to achieve in a few lessons (or years) what dedicated, skilled primary teachers couldn't manage in some six or seven years

    The only time, imo, that we should really worry about spelling or punctuation is when it genuinely impedes understanding.
  • Shock everybody by telling them your fallback strategy for teaching possessive apostrophes to those kids who find it really hard to get the hang of.

    I dare you.

    ;biggrin
  • edited February 2017
    Don't use 'em. Simples.

    Most of the time in English, we add the suffix -s to make a plural, or for the 3rd person singular present (he/she walks.)

    When pupils are really confused, and effectively just litter their writing with random apostrophes when they find an -s at the end, they will make far few mistakes if they never use one.

    So, teach them not to use one = fewer mistakes = 'raising standards'...
  • edited February 2017
    MrsGrey said:

    Just looking again at that ITA thing.

    It's not even consistent. ;doh

    So they invent a symbol for the sound in aull (all) and waurm (warm) but then don't use it it for the same sound in stormy.

    So it doesn't even regularise the symbol-sound relationship which is at the root of so many spelling/reading problems, which is what they were trying to address in the first place. ;lol

    I KNOW ! Its nuts !!

    You'd think the policy at the time was to take a confusing thing and add several extra layers of contradictory confusing'ness to it, then hand the whole thing to a classroom full of 5 year olds.


    ;angry
  • But even better, the plan was that once they had learnt to read that weird fake language .... they would then be taken back to the beginning and taught 'proper' English.

    ;lol

    Presumably there was some research done which indicated that wasting a couple of years on learning to read and write a made-up language would somehow make learning real English easier. If a bit slower, on account of the time you spent on the other thing first.

    I'm not convinced they thought it through. ;puzzled


  • Mrs G, I doubt very much that there was thinking involved.

    It may well have worked for other's who stuck with it but I was plucked from one system and dumped into another so effectively was unable to read and write at the age of 7.

    It took my parents a long time to convince the new school that I was neither stupid nor lazy.

    My mum in fact went back to a particular teacher with a copy of my O'Level results and asked him if he would like some assistance in depositing them were there was no sun ;biggrin
  • Not much thinking involved, but maybe the odd funny coloured pill, mushroom, and hand rolled cigarette played a part......................
  • Wow - I think I must have dodged a bullet there, the article says that ITA was taught between 1964 and 1968.

    Being born in 1961, I attended a very ordinary primary school so presume that I was "prime time" to be exposed to ITA but I truthfully have never heard of it.

    Thank heavens for that !!!
  • http://www.eyemagazine.com/feature/article/the-initial-teaching-alphabet

    An informative article on ITA. If you are interested in that kind of thing.

    The most obvious downfall in the research was that they didn't do a longitudinal study.
  • I know life is a gamble "and all that". And people should be encouraged to be pioneers, entrepreneurs, ground breakers and radical thinkers. With this in mind, I wonder if any of you good people would be interested in purchasing (at heavily discounted rates) any ITA typewriters or Betamax entertainment systems. I need to clear some room in me lock up.
  • Madcap

    I could swap you some laser-disc players and a Sinclair C5.
  • Only if you chuck in a mini disc player (not joking, I have some seriously good compilations on mini discs) I don`t know ANYONE else who has mini discs.......
  • When the English tongue we speak.
    Why is break not rhymed with freak?
    Will you tell me why it's true
    We say sew but likewise few?
    And the maker of the verse,
    Cannot rhyme his horse with worse?
    Beard is not the same as heard
    Cord is different from word.
    Cow is cow but low is low
    Shoe is never rhymed with foe.
    Think of hose, dose,and lose
    And think of goose and yet with choose
    Think of comb, tomb and bomb,
    Doll and roll or home and some.
    Since pay is rhymed with say
    Why not paid with said I pray?
    Think of blood, food and good.
    Mould is not pronounced like could.
    Wherefore done, but gone and lone -
    Is there any reason known?
    To sum up all, it seems to me
    Sound and letters don't agree.

    Lord Cromer
  • MrsGrey said:

    http://www.eyemagazine.com/feature/article/the-initial-teaching-alphabet

    An informative article on ITA. If you are interested in that kind of thing.

    The most obvious downfall in the research was that they didn't do a longitudinal study.

    It's because they couldn't spell it.
  • As someone that learnt to Spell & use Grammar after leaving School (thanks to Mr Gates) my biggest problem was the correct use of There / Their / They're.
  • That is genius...............................

    That Lord was a master of the written word
    But not so good with food
    A master of the written word
    But useless with his sword.

    I like this....................
  • Vorse, you said it was a problem. Does that mean it no longer is one?
  • O yess iam absoluteely fyne now.
  • NE - Hope so... ;pray
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